docwjw1 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I need your help. I am seeking information about the person who used the name Joe Green (a possible AKA), address not listed. He purchased Colt Thompson, model 1921A #2976, which I own, from Von Lengerke & Antoine, 33 S. Wabash Ave., Chicago Illinois 16 July 1925 along with three (3) 100rd. drum magazines. The purchase is noted in the records of the Chicago Coroner's office relative to an investigation made by a Coroner's Jury into the 1929 Chicago, Valentine's Day Massacre. ANY information or possible leads to pursue will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Talked to Bill Helmer this morning, mentioned your gun. He said this might be an interesting gun, pre-dating the Dion O'Banion Thompsons brought in to Chicago. The 3 C drums make it suspect, possibly related to the underworld. Chuck S. may have some good info on this subject, certainly more then I can provide. See if he chims in on this- OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thanks, I appreciate any and all help. I am certain this could prove to be an interesting Thompson, especially with the 3 "C" drums noted in original purchase record. How could I contact Chuck S. ? Thanks, WJW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Chuck is on the site here, one of the Thompson experts and an expert on the SVDM. Goes by gijive. Usually he pops up when not of working somewhere- I'll email him off site tell him he's a wanted man - Haaa OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Sandy and docwjw1, Got your message and have read the above post with interest. I will see what I can find out for you. If it is listed in the minutes of the Coroner's Investigation into the SVDM, that might be the only information available. Docwjw1, If you care to email me off-line use the private messenger on this site and I will send you a private email. It would help in the research of this gun to determine where and when you obtained the gun, i.e., Dealer, Police Agency, etc. I'll get back to you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK2112 Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I need your help. I am seeking information about the person who used the name Joe Green (a possible AKA), address not listed. He purchased Colt Thompson, model 1921A #2976, which I own, from Von Lengerke & Antoine, 33 S. Wabash Ave., Chicago Illinois 16 July 1925 along with three (3) 100rd. drum magazines. The purchase is noted in the records of the Chicago Coroner's office relative to an investigation made by a Coroner's Jury into the 1929 Chicago, Valentine's Day Massacre. ANY information or possible leads to pursue will be greatly appreciated.whoa......you've got some history here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I still have hope to hear from someone who may have any information on the original purchase of this Thompson or any information on "Joe Green" or anyone who may have used that name as an alias. Thanks, WJW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 What I understand based in part from your post and also Gordon't book. Your NO 2976 had it's serial numbers ground off, this presumption is based on written notes in Gordon's book that your barrel was removed for serial number identification. Assuming I am correct, the ground off serial number is an extreme indicator that this Thompson was delivered by VL&A into the hands of criminals, more on that later I will try to tie to another VL&A Thompson. Auto Ordnance originally shipped your Thompson to VL&A along with another NO 3717 in July 1925, this you probably already know as well. So original shipment and sale are covered, doubt there is anything left there. Now for Joe Green, it is highly unlikely that was his real name, so your best and most likely source of connecting his name is to find books, research, police records, newspaper articles on gang activity, that might connect his name, perhaps because of an arrest. I personally do not actively study criminal activity, even though another Thompson with ground off serial numbers came to my attention that I felt obliged to research and bring into the light of the Thompson collector world So this might be a slight tie for you. Please review this article I published for TATA, could not have done that without the help of a couple others. http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/tata/2012_q4/page00002.htm Take a look at the grind marks for this same Thompson NO 5518 from the article, are they similar to yours? Believe the discoloration on the finish around the grind area is related to something later in it's life, not when it was originally ground off. If they look to be similar style of grind marks, perhaps both NO 2976 and NO 5518 were delivered to the same "gunsmith" to remove the serial numbers? I have no idea on who that might be maybe others could speculate. Back to Joe Green, again, the article linked above was in part completed by much local research and a great connection.My mention of books, police reports on gangs, newspapers on major events might get you a connection? Have you reached out to Mario Gomes for any thoughts on that name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Oh to addThere is another Thompson recently sold with ground off serial numbers that I hope to inspect. If I do I will update any observations here. It could add more color to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostsoldier Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) What's the possibility of this being a Frank McErlane weapon (which I understand he got from Dean O'Banion, used to try to whack Spike O'Donnell with in 1925)? Rob Edited March 24, 2016 by ghostsoldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I still have hope to discover more historical information on my Colt1921A, serial #2976. The exposed serial numbers have been removed and it now has IRS 6377 D stamped. The true number was revealed when Gordon Herigstad removed the barrel. The earliest approved transfer information I have been able to obtain shows it was transferred on an ATF FORM 3, approved 18 August 1981 to Robert Thomas Spengel, Scottsdale, Arizona (now deceased), from Kiesler Police Supply, Inc. P.O. 98 Hwy 150 Greenville, Indiana 47124. I have attempted to Contact Douglas M. Kiesler, Pres. Kiesler Police Supply several times, without success. I have not given up hope in the search of finding more interesting history of this Colt and will appreciate ANY help or suggestions. Jim Watson, Cell # 480-272-1144 Email docwjw@cox.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Can you post some pics of the defacing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I have the Anderson, Indiana PD Thompson, that I got from Kiesler. I worked directly with Doug's son. I got some good paperwork with it, as it's right in the heart of Dillinger country, just right outside where he was locked up. Wouldn't of had any bearing here, I did provide them with some information on another Thompson they took in on trade. As I remember Kiesler had the Thompson for a long time, it was overpriced. I bounced in with a reasonable offer and caught Doug at a good time I guess. As Colt Chopper says, please, if you can, provide pictures of the defacing of the receiver and lower , might open a door for you. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 These are the important pictures of the AKA Joe Green Colt. The serial numbers on the trigger frame have been removed in the same manner. ANY help in finding it's true history will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, WJW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted February 26, 2017 Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 OK, thanks. Reason I had asked about photos, Colt Chopper too, HS Lebman had a certain way he had attacked the removal of serial numbers. The ones pictured at Little Bo ( Nelson Thompsons ) and Colt Chopper's have the same milling I guess you call it, yours does not match, at least the Nelson guns.So at least you can check that led off.Keep at it. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwjw1 Posted August 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 Next month, I will be celebrating 89years! The year's have taught me to NEVER give up hope! I still have #2976. I would greatly appreciate any leads to pursue to possibly solve the "Joe Green" mystery! Thanks, Jim Watson. Cell # 480-272-1144. Email. docwjw@cox.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen Und Bier Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 Congratulations on your 89! I hope to make it to that age healthy and happy. That gives me 30 more years. Many more to you, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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