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Gangster Gun, Serial # Revealed !


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So CCsgun is not one in the images there?

Where did I get that idea?

Just noting the grind marks on the side of his gun are shaped almost identical to the lower gun in the last image and the grip frame on his gun has grind area shape like the lower on the top gun

Whoever did those probably did a few at the same time I'd guess and was pretty good at the wheel.

John,

 

The two guns in the little Bohemia picture did originate from the same source. Several were part of a shipment from Hyman Lebman (see link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_S._Lehman) sent to Minneapolis to the Dillinger gang while they were hiding out in, I believe the Fall of 1933. Colt Chopper's Gun was used at this bank robbery (http://sections.brainerddispatch.com/history/stories/ban_1002030007.shtml) and Tommy Carroll's apartment was raided in December of 1933 and the gun and some bank loot was recovered. Tommy Carroll slugged a Detective that was guarding him and escaped only to be killed a few months later. The Brainard Bank president was awarded the gun and proceeds from the robbery that were recovered as a result of a civil suit against Carroll and it was registered by the bank president in 1934 when the NFA came into being. That is how the gun got into private channels.

 

Lebman used the same signature style grinding method on all the guns that were part of this shipment. That is why the grinding looks so similar on the two guns in the Little Bohemia picture. Colt Chopper has the entire list of the serial numbers of the guns that were sent to the Dillinger gang, they were part of an FBI investigation into Lebman.

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The two guns in the little Bohemia picture did originate from the same source. Several were part of a shipment from Hyman Lebman (see link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_S._Lehman) sent to Minneapolis to the Dillinger gang while they were hiding out in, I believe the Fall of 1933. Colt Chopper's Gun was used at this bank robbery (http://sections.brainerddispatch.com/history/stories/ban_1002030007.shtml) and Tommy Carroll's apartment was raided in December of 1933 and the gun and some bank loot was recovered. Tommy Carroll slugged a Detective that was guarding him and escaped only to be killed a few months later. The Brainard Bank president was awarded the gun and proceeds from the robbery that were recovered as a result of a civil suit against Carroll and it was registered by the bank president in 1934 when the NFA came into being. That is how the gun got into private channels.

 

Lebman used the same signature style grinding method on all the guns that were part of this shipment. That is why the grinding looks so similar on the two guns in the Little Bohemia picture. Colt Chopper has the entire list of the serial numbers of the guns that were sent to the Dillinger gang, they were part of an FBI investigation into Lebman.

 

More specifically, the five Model 1921ACs shipped by Hymie Lebman to Minneapolis were acquired by the Nelson Gang (that's an after-the-fact handle -- they never called themselves anything like that) led by Lester "Baby Face Nelson" Gillis, which at that point was a different outfit from the Dillinger Gang. Dillinger and Nelson only joined forces in the spring of 1934, when both their gangs had been significantly diminished.

The Brainerd job was, in fact, the Nelson gang's first proper bank robbery, and a real fiasco it was.

Thanks to both of you for reminding me about the grinding patterns, I had forgotten about all that! That's an important detail in the whole Lebman-Nelson-Dillinger complex.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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The two guns in the little Bohemia picture did originate from the same source. Several were part of a shipment from Hyman Lebman (see link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_S._Lehman) sent to Minneapolis to the Dillinger gang while they were hiding out in, I believe the Fall of 1933. Colt Chopper's Gun was used at this bank robbery (http://sections.brainerddispatch.com/history/stories/ban_1002030007.shtml) and Tommy Carroll's apartment was raided in December of 1933 and the gun and some bank loot was recovered. Tommy Carroll slugged a Detective that was guarding him and escaped only to be killed a few months later. The Brainard Bank president was awarded the gun and proceeds from the robbery that were recovered as a result of a civil suit against Carroll and it was registered by the bank president in 1934 when the NFA came into being. That is how the gun got into private channels.

 

Lebman used the same signature style grinding method on all the guns that were part of this shipment. That is why the grinding looks so similar on the two guns in the Little Bohemia picture. Colt Chopper has the entire list of the serial numbers of the guns that were sent to the Dillinger gang, they were part of an FBI investigation into Lebman.

 

More specifically, the five Model 1921ACs shipped by Hymie Lebman to Minneapolis were acquired by the Nelson Gang (that's an after-the-fact handle -- they never called themselves anything like that) led by Lester "Baby Face Nelson" Gillis, which at that point was a different outfit from the Dillinger Gang. Dillinger and Nelson only joined forces in the spring of 1934, when both their gangs had been significantly diminished.

The Brainerd job was, in fact, the Nelson gang's first proper bank robbery, and a real fiasco it was.

Thanks to both of you for reminding me about the grinding patterns, I had forgotten about all that! That's an important detail in the whole Lebman-Nelson-Dillinger complex.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

Hans,

 

Of course you are correct, the Brainard Robbery was strictly the Nelson gang, I used the Dillinger name for ease in describing the series of events that occurred when the guns were shipped and as a reference to the guns that were abandoned at Little Bohemia after the shootout fiasco. Most people that remember the Little Bohemia event associate it with Dillinger. But of course, you are right about the gangs merging as their numbers dwindled.

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Thanks. Appreciate the info.....something I should know more about. My Great Grandma lived just a few blocks away from there at that time as well as many other ancestral relatives, as my Brainerd famy history goes back to before it was incorporated in 1872. We still have hunting land twenty miles north of there.

Brainerd ain't nothin' like in the movie 'Fargo'!

 

Minneapolis too, where Dad's father and his brothers grew up. Great grandpa who bears my name was a moonshiner up in Sunrise and the boys worked in Minneapolis as well as distributing some of his "still work". My dad used to drive us around in the 60's pointing out places Dillinger lived and hung out.

Now I live in Birchwood, near White Bear Lake. Ma Barker and her gang including Al Karpis lived in one of the vacation cottages here as well as White Bear Lake next door, moving back and forth for a year or so.

Interesting history.

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