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Morris Rogak DBA L.E.S,


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Lockbar,-----------------9 months ago--------------- I remember back in 1971-72 Class III dealer LES in Morton Grove IL (of Rogak fame} were offering Live, transferable Winchester 1918 BARS for the price of $250 each. Yes, Two Hundred and Fifty smackers. Get me that time machine, please.------------------------------------------------------- The above post was in response to a Forgotten Weapons segment on the BAR. I currently own a Winchester 1918 BAR that was sold by Morris Rogak to another dealer in 1972. Can anyone enlighten me about Mr. Rogak and his company L.E S.??? Thanks, Jim C

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Morrie and Mike good friends of mine back when.The Dad passed with Cancer decades ago Mike is in Florida retired and enjoying life.I bought my first 1921a Thompson from Mike for $900 bucks. and a S&W mod 76 new in box Serial #210 for 300 bucks.

>yeah everybody though my first was from Earl< Have a good 1918 Bar story with Earl also. bless his soul now!

After that had bought many and brokered many for Mike.He was my FAL go to guy. #3798 semi 27 came from Mikes Collection.And a bunch of others i bought. I always regretted not buying his MAG-58'S he had on display in the Museum room for $10,000 today going for well over $200 grand.I know the history including the DOG OF WAR's all too well.Manville deal.And that started me off on the Maremont M-60 deal. bought a 100 M-60's from them on contract. $1,950.00 each... yes good times. Still have the catalog and museum pictures. since he never really allowed people to take pic's.Anyhow thanks for bringing that up good times.

 

my mind still works, Colt21ARon

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3640 WEST DEMPSTER was on the corner it was a converted gas station made into a Museum and gun shop. you had to call for appt and get buzzed in thru steel doors.I can tell you many did not make it through the place. And every time i went i would bring a new friend.Mostly cop and military buddies. And Mike would ask, Ron who's this? Since anytime i mentioned i was going i always had somebody say take me take me.Well over a couple hundred mg's on display. YEP home again.

Colt 21ARon

Edited by colt21a
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Ron,

Thanks for responding.

My Winchester BAR is a British proofed , lend/lease. Probably one of the 25,000 BARs given to England after Dunkirk.

Do you happen to know if Mr. Rogak imported large quantities of BARs from England or did he buy them from Interarms??

Do you happen to have a sales flyer from Mr Rogak advertising BARs for $250.00???

Thanks,

Jim C

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I had one transfer from 1918 Winchester

B.A.R. Mike to Curtis Earl around 1977 or so a really wild get back story,Along with my ROG COX MG-42 to Earl also. no flyers ever i saw of bar's Just his normal ad's he ran and his catalog which was Uzi and FN FAL only. He imported Uzi's.. I know he also bought from Sam at Interarms also. I did a deal with five Bar's on a trade at that time for around $2500 for five.Colt21aRon

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I have a few ads from L.E.S from taken from Shotgun News to which I subscribed from the middle sixties continuing in the present. I think there are one or two L.E.S. ads on my site under heading "annoying ads". I bought some accessories from them but no MGs and got my first registered MG from Earl in 1970 and in the '70s bought MGs from R.J. Perry, Ron Rudin (one of the very, very few people murdered by an NFA controlled device, a suppressed Ruger) Roger Cox and others.

All these dealers, and others, could field amazing ads offering amazing numbers of exotic MGs, with R.J. Perry usually having the most exotic.

A hundred dollar bill went a loooong ways then in purchasing NFA compared to its equivalent today. FWIW

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Ron the manville deal when i was at Mikes he hada few Manville guns at the time i was interested in buying them. at the time he said no sale but you could mess with them, take apart have fun. So at the time i was doing bizz with Irv Kahn from Ohio we became good gun buddies. and did many deals,And i mentioned them to him.And at that time a movie was going into production "Dog's of War" And Irv knew a guy who knew a guy who contacted me and i said to Irv patents are gone on these can we reproduce these today for military and such. they are cool. Yes a naive Marine. well bef ore long the studio asked can we use this gun in production and yes it is on the v.h.s. cover and dvd also. still Have a copy. and in one scene in the movie there is a brochure on the table in the hotel room when they are doing the gun deal on, it is Mike pictured on it. After it was released and said and done Irv was going to come up with 50 grand to get the ball rolling on production.. But Mikes day was busy with Handgun development doing the ROJAK P-18 I had one of the firt prototypes in hand at that time which was a copy of the Steyr g.b. hi cap 9mm at the time which Steyr was getting off the ground or abandoned it. i heard two stories on that Fiasco. YES i was the Walter Mitty Of the gun world, been everyplace and did deals and talked with everybody at one time or another.The invest backers went no place until decades later when the gun was done, Since i was off doing FAL'S with R.J.Perry or trying to ANd the Maremont deal i handed that one to him on a Gold platter,.As some might well remember my ARM LTD one page ad's in shotgun news. for FAL'S and M-60's and my own catalog in 1980. I also Gave Robert K. Brown his inspiration to put in his Infamous Mar 75 issue of S.O.F. that Merc head shot. Since he was at the Cop Shop, flew in from Rhodesia or some far off place to get a L.E.S. FAL PARA From Mike.That model His daughter is in the magzine holding that FAL in one of the magazine ad's.later on. G Series 13700 number. Since we sat and talked at the counter at the Cop Shop about the file he had which would become S.O.F. and he asked my thoughts showing me pasted photos rough drawing and prints of the first magazine draft. My remark BOB this will be a hit. and yes use that picture in it. He later used a few others in future issues.I still have the first copy he mailed me with a thanks note for the input. The only thing i miss today is over half of the great guys i had deals with and shot with are now gone. Also after my B.A.R exp with Mike i later on became good buds with Bob Landies and Kent Lamont and disb Bob's B.A.R.'S for him and got the first fifty guns. And did business with Kent. I sold him serial 42 G para new in box. Sadly saw it years later ata SAR show shot to heck. Kent was already gone. And told the guy the entire history of that one also. He said how could you know that. I said it was my gun originally from Mike.also disb for Steyr later on and the first Galils for Magnum Research also.And was the driving force for those Clayco AK'S back around 1981/ 82.Some of the first dealers got the Augs through me the Clayco ak's and the Steyr Egypt Maddi's. Had many dealing with Rick Demilt also when he was at Howco. and later he went to Colt. Still had my old phone book with Stoners, Sullivan and Chuck Dorchesters.Phone numbers. Needed them on the AR-10 project that did not go anyplace. so Sold the collection to Reed Knight, another time in history. i enjoyed doing it for over forty years. AND when i see and hear guys today talk at SAR show about some dude or this and that. I set them straight. And they look at oh yeah sure. and i say i was that guy. so Get the story straight. Me and DAN always talk over good War tales every year at SAR Sure i miss it. My wife hated it Travel Phone calls, letters, Never home so much. But she got to shoot many a cool gun. Well enough of this i can't write or type for chit.. But i can do deals and meet people and locate the impossible.hopefully will see some of the old crew this year at SAR I have a hundred plus Thompson stories.even a few Roger and EARL would or would not like ha ha take care Colt21a Ron P.S. I never brag about the stuff. It was i just did it when everybody else hesitated or ran.I am glad we still have a few of us left still chiming in and reporting.

Edited by colt21a
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Ron the manville deal when i was at Mikes he hada few Manville guns at the time i was interested in buying them. at the time he said no sale but you could mess with them, take apart have fun. So at the time i was doing bizz with Irv Kahn from Ohio we became good gun buddies. and did many deals,And i mentioned them to him.And at that time a movie was going into production "Dog's of War"

 

And Irv knew a guy who knew a guy who contacted me and i said to Irv patents are gone on these can we reproduce these today for military and such. they are cool. Yes a naive Marine. well bef ore long the studio asked can we use this gun in production and yes it is on the v.h.s. cover and dvd also. still Have a copy.

 

and in one scene in the movie there is a brochure on the table in the hotel room when they are doing the gun deal on, it is Mike pictured on it. After it was released and said and done Irv was going to come up with 50 grand to get the ball rolling on production.. But Mikes day was busy with Handgun development doing the ROJAK P-18 I had one of the firt prototypes in hand at that time which was a copy of the Steyr g.b. hi cap 9mm at the time which Steyr was getting off the ground or abandoned it. i heard two stories on that Fiasco.

 

YES i was the Walter Mitty Of the gun world, been everyplace and did deals and talked with everybody at one time or another.The invest backers went no place until decades later when the gun was done, Since i was off doing FAL'S with R.J.Perry or trying to ANd the Maremont deal i handed that one to him on a Gold platter,.As some might well remember my ARM LTD one page ad's in shotgun news. for FAL'S and M-60's and my own catalog in 1980.

 

I also Gave Robert K. Brown his inspiration to put in his Infamous Mar 75 issue of S.O.F. that Merc head shot.

Since he was at the Cop Shop, flew in from Rhodesia or some far off place to get a L.E.S. FAL PARA From Mike.That model His daughter is in the magzine holding that FAL in one of the magazine ad's.later on. G Series 13700 number.

 

Since we sat and talked at the counter at the Cop Shop about the file he had which would become S.O.F. and he asked my thoughts showing me pasted photos rough drawing and prints of the first magazine draft. My remark BOB this will be a hit. and yes use that picture in it. He later used a few others in future issues.I still have the first copy he mailed me with a thanks note for the input.

 

The only thing i miss today is over half of the great guys i had deals with and shot with are now gone. Also after my B.A.R exp with Mike i later on became good buds with Bob Landies and Kent Lamont and disb Bob's B.A.R.'S for him and got the first fifty guns.

 

And did business with Kent. I sold him serial 42 G para new in box. Sadly saw it years later ata SAR show shot to heck. Kent was already gone. And told the guy the entire history of that one also. He said how could you know that. I said it was my gun originally from Mike.also disb for Steyr later on and the first Galils for Magnum Research also.And was the driving force for those Clayco AK'S back around 1981/ 82.Some of the first dealers got the Augs through me the Clayco ak's and the Steyr Egypt Maddi's. Had many dealing with Rick Demilt also when he was at Howco. and later he went to Colt.

 

Still had my old phone book with Stoners, Sullivan and Chuck Dorchesters.Phone numbers. Needed them on the AR-10 project that did not go anyplace. so Sold the collection to Reed Knight, another time in history. i enjoyed doing it for over forty years.

 

AND when i see and hear guys today talk at SAR show about some dude or this and that. I set them straight. And they look at oh yeah sure. and i say i was that guy. so Get the story straight. Me and DAN always talk over good War tales every year at SAR

 

Sure i miss it. My wife hated it Travel Phone calls, letters, Never home so much. But she got to shoot many a cool gun. Well enough of this i can't write or type for chit..

 

But i can do deals and meet people and locate the impossible.hopefully will see some of the old crew this year at SAR

 

I have a hundred plus Thompson stories.even a few Roger and EARL would or would not like ha ha

take care Colt21a Ron

P.S.

I never brag about the stuff. It was i just did it when everybody else hesitated or ran.I am glad we still have a few of us left still chiming in and reporting.

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Having computer problems with storm tonight so have no idea how these posts reply came out tried to do another and it never posted. anyways guys have a nice night i have to latch the Bunker door. Colt21ARon

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Ron, Bob,

 

Thank you both. I love hearing about the good ole days. Wish I would have gotten into this stuff sooner, but I was too young and naive. I recall my cousin talking about being able to buy M16s when I was a kid around 85/86. Wish my dad would have bought a bunch back then. Even today he has no interest. He thinks they are cool, but think Im nuts (along with all my MG friends)!

 

Im just glad so many were involved and saved as many guns as they did.

 

Ron

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Black River,

Bob,

Thanks for the tip about annoying adds. You had 3 such adds from LES, unfortunately non featured a BAR , so I did not copy.

For that matter very few BARs were listed on any of the annoying adds.

BARs don't seem to come up for sale nearly as often as Thompson today, and I guess that was true 45 years ago also.

Thanks again,

Jim C

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The ads are from Shotgun News so usually quite short.For long lists one had to request by phone or mail to get a list or brochure mailed back. Curt Earl had the most alluring catalog and always had BARS as did R.J Perry who offered a 1918 A2 at one time claiming it was the only one that made it into the registry. He offered a number of NE BARs in one long ad that were around $1200 in 1977. Quite a few other dealers also had varities of BARS which were actually relaitvely plentiful. Always lots of Thompsons with some specialzing in them as did Earl, Rudin, Miller, Cox and others. The Houston Gun show the the early and middle ‘70s had hundreds of MGs regularly on display by many dealer.

Missing from the early offerings were H&Ks except for G3s now and then. No tube guns, no sideplate guns, no sears, hardly any reactivated DEWATs, FA conversions, etc, etc and all the imaginative goodies that eventually made their way into the market once ATF got a bit of a grip on how to regulate manufacture and registration of MGs for private possession, a part of federal law that the GCA’68 failed to eliminate. The 18 years of manufacture of MGs was a windfall!!

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