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Failure to Feed First Round


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It's been a really long time since I have posted. However, I have had a lifelong problem with my full auto Thompson. It hates to feed the first round. It works well with drums, just hates sticks. I have a twenty round stick that works well,but the 30's don't. I have ordered new springs for the thirty to see if that might help. I have noticed if I hold the mag up against the bolt it does tend to work better I have tried different mag catches with no help. Putting tape (yes tape ) over the mag catch hole tends to tighten the mag and it does help. I sure would like a good solution to this problem. If anyone can really help me here I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance for ANY help.

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Sounds like you may be using mags that were modified for semi auto only Thompson. Check holes on rear of mag. They should be round like a circle if they are oval or egg shaped then they were modified for semi auto only Thompson. Bolts and receiver depth are different for semis. Use only mags that have round circle hole for mag catch. HTH
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My Thompson (1928 full auto - West Hurley - Auto Ordnance) generally feeds the first round, but sometimes will jam after firing a few rounds. I will find the top shell pushed slightly forward. I eject the mag, push the shell back and generally I can complete firing. I have mostly 30 round stick magazines. I did try my 50 round drum once, but it was difficult to seat properly in the mag well. I found that if pushed it all the way in that was too far. I had to move back slightly. I would think that the proper seat would be to slide the drum as far in as it would go?

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Cliffdropover,

 

We need more info. What make and model Thompson? What manufacturer mags work, and what ones do not? As was already mentioned, are the mags set up for full auto or semi?

 

Thanks.

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First of all, thanks to all for the help. Now to try to answer your questions. It is indeed a West Hurley (Auto-Ordnance) 1928 Thompson. I work a bit on guns (advanced tinkerer-not a gunsmith) and I am aware of the difference between semi and full auto mags, All my mags are original full auto mags. I did try replacing the mag catch once, but the mag was still loose. It seems like a lot of you have seen this problem. Again the drum mags work great. It just bothers the heck out of me that I can't fix this. The tape over the mag catch hole in the mag is the only thing I have found that works. Sounds crazy, but it does snug up the mag. Is there any way to alter the mag catch to make it hold the mag a bit higher and tighter? Again any help here is greatly appreciated.

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I agree with Tiz. PK has certainly seen more West Hurleys than most of us.

 

It sounds like your trigger frame may be out of spec. The reason drums work is that the feed positioning is controlled by the rails, not the mag catch. If you could get another trigger frame to try on your gun, especially a WWII one, that might help diagnose the problem.

 

Where are you located in Kentucky? One of the other board members might have a trigger frame you could try.

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TSMG28 is right on the money! West Hurley 28s especially late production guns are all over the place spec wise.

 

The problem your describing is not the magazines, its the gun. From your description, the drum mag slots are reasonably correct while the box magazine latch is out of spec.

 

The position of the mag catch can be corrected by someone like PK but its easier and cheaper to find a G.I. lower and solve the problem.

 

Take TSMG28s suggestion and try a G.I. trigger frame.

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Thanks again for all the help. I have some mag springs coming and I think a spare GI mag catch somewhere in my parts bin. I will try them first, since I already have them ,but being out of specs does sound like the problem.. If those fixes don't work, I will be looking for that trigger frame. Any idea what one should cost?

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Not throwing any rocks at the WH FAs here (I own one) but there's likely nothing on the gun within specs. Problems are far deeper than can be fixed by swapping out a part or two. Many will not run at all without expert attention. PK is the best. You'll get your gun back running like a champ. Plan on replacing every part on the gun with GI or parts of his manufacture except possibly the frame, receiver, and wood.

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Swapping out a West Hurley frame with a GI frame may solve your problem (I really don't know). However, remember WH Thompson guns are for the most part not strictly within acceptable GI manufacturing specifications. A 1928 Savage or Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) GI frame may or may not slide on your WH receiver easily (or at all). This is also true for the Colt's guns and they are not out of spec! Be sure and try out any GI frame for fit before buying. Or have a generous return policy. And use plenty of lubrication on all the rails.

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Took the Thompson to the range today and met someone that also has an Auto-Ordnance Thompson. He said some mags work better than others. This matches with what I have found. I tried the 20 round mag and no problems. The 30 did not like to feed the first round. Then I used the tape over the mag hole being sure to also cover the rails on the back of the mag. This snugs up the mag in the rails cut for it in the lower receiver and also snugs up the hole the mag release goes in to just a few millimeters, but it is just enough) It worked perfectly..I took off the tape and had a failure to feed the first round. Replaced the tape and even after shooting short bursts and thus having first rounds to feed again,all went perfectly.. A roll of electricians tape is pretty cheap and does work... Try it you'll like it. And thanks again for all the help. (It just seems to snug up those loose surplus mags perfectly.)

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mohawk64 What would you do to fix it? I would like to learn how this is done if it is possible to do it myself.

 

Thanks

Send me a picture of the feed ramp. I can almost tell by looking at the feed ramp if this is your problem. My west Hurley M1 did exactly the same thing. I can have it fixed in a few minutes IF it's the same problem.

 

I will pm with my contact information.

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28 Bridgeport and TD have made valid points. .... I'd be suspicious that the magazine slots may be cut too close to the face so when you slide in a mag it sits too far forward and us a bit loose.

This in turn causes the rounds to bind a but as they are not feeding straight - like a kink in a hose.

Addi g tape may or may not have anything to do with the mag catch, but guessing that since you replaced that it may have helped a bit?

The tape does more to keep the mag in alignment with the bore.

If you can try someone else's lower and it fits, that will eliminate one more suspect

One other thing...

 

The drum feeds straight in every round while the mags feed from alternating sides. A couple of WH guns I looked at had really rough feed ramps and the round feeding from the side if center-bore would encounter a lot more friction than it would if properly smoothed out.

Maybe polishing would help but then you'll lose finish inside.

Last possibility:

Replace the recoil spring with a new GI spring.....maybe the one in there is weak and just can't overcome the off-center feeding from a stick mag?

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