Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

"us Property" Tsmg


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 kyle

kyle

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 30 December 2003 - 02:17 PM

Is there a uniform rule as to why some TSMGs were marked "US PROPERTY"? I can't find much on this issue in American Thunder. Were these Lend-Lease guns to foreign nations? If my desire is to find a gun that at least has the possibility of having been carried ashore at Normandy by a US GI, does a gun stamped "US PROPERTY" have no chance of having this lineage? Thanks for your help!

  • 0

#2 Waffen Und Bier

Waffen Und Bier

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 629 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Like the name says "Guns and beer" (and really hot chicks who like guns and beer).

Posted 30 December 2003 - 06:05 PM

Here's my spin

I got an M1A1 marked US Property. No Brit proof marks.
I got an M1 Garand not marked US Prop, but has Brit proofs.
I got a Remington Rand 1911A1 marked US Property. Not British proof marked.

I have no idea.
  • 0

#3 TSMG28

TSMG28

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 30 December 2003 - 08:19 PM

Based on a number of past comments on this board and a discussion with Frank, there don't appear to have been any formal rules about US Property being added to weapons. It is my understanding that most of the 1928's manufacturered after Lend-Lease went into effect were marked US Model of 1928 A1 so that they could be supplied as part of Lend-Lease. Once the M1's and M1A1's came along, they only appear to have marked those that were definitely destined for Lend-Lease. Many weapons not marked made their way into other countries, so you get the kind of disparity that Waffen und Bier indicates.

Not all Lend-Lease countries proof marked their weapons to the degree that countries like Britain did.

Bottom line.....anything goes!
  • 0

#4 kyle

kyle

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:07 PM

Thanks for the comments. Am I correct in concluding therefore that a Savage M1A1 marked "US PROPERTY" was more likely than not to be a gun earmarked for a non-US purchaser? That is, is it not very likely that a US soldier in WW2 would have carried a Thompson SMG stamped "US PROPERTY"?
  • 0

#5 John Jr

John Jr

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1956 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mena, Arkansas, USA
  • Interests:Plenty

Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:19 PM

QUOTE
That is, is it not very likely that a US soldier in WW2 would have carried a Thompson SMG stamped "US PROPERTY"?


Good question. I does not sound like there is a good answer. Gun markings like these can be very strange to figure out.

British Thompsons are not marked with "not english make," when most all other weapons that were shipped back to the US by GB were.

I don't get it.

Jr

  • 0

#6 USMC-2-USN

USMC-2-USN

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Chattanooga, TN
  • Interests:Machine guns, competitive shooting, blonds with big tatas, NAVY!!

Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:22 PM

I have a Savage built M1A1 that was carried by a US troop in the pacific theatre during WW2 (specifically mid 1943). The serial number is in the 522xxx range. It is NOT marked with the "US Property" stampings. It has the "FJA and GEG" US acceptance stamps and has never been to an arsonal for rebuild.

I think this is all original as it has been in the veteran's safe for 60 years (hopefully in about 3 months will be in mine!!). If you need photos for comparison let me know...although mine is different than every one i have ever seen

It is my understanding that the property stamp was for exported weapons (makes sense?)...though mine, as stated above, is unique...so i think pretty much anything is possible!
  • 0

#7 Waffen Und Bier

Waffen Und Bier

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 629 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Like the name says "Guns and beer" (and really hot chicks who like guns and beer).

Posted 30 December 2003 - 11:25 PM

There's a bunch of former Lend Lease Thompsons in Russia that seem to be making their way out of that county as demills, dummy guns, and parts kits. Anybody seen any special markings the Russians may have put on these guns? Are any of those receivers marked US Property?
  • 0

#8 DougStump

DougStump

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 276 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shreveport, Louisiana

Posted 31 December 2003 - 06:56 AM

I was told "long ago", that originally the "US PROPERTY" marks were applied to weapons that were also for commercial sale to id them as governemnt property. For example the M1911 and my Mossberg 44US assault rifle. (it's military and it holds more then one round, so it must be an assault rifle, right?)

But I think things got blurred in WWII. My guess, for what it's worth, some tommies that were made and marked for lend lease were absorbed into the US system. And some that we really didn't need that bad right now were sent to our allies without the property marks.

I have fondled a mint M1 carbine that was Lend Lease to Canada, it has a Canadian ownership stamp, but no US property.

BTW, my M1A1 does not have it. It's not Uncle Sam's property, it's MINE!

Like I said, just my guess.

Doug Stump

  • 0