Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

New Wh M1 Arrives!


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 TSMGguy

TSMGguy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West of the Pecos, Texas
  • Interests:Motorcycles, old airplanes, and guns.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 11:04 AM

After a double form 4 transfer, the new WH M1 has arrived. It was a pleasure to find one unfired in the original box with all of the paperwork and tags. I quickly switched out the unmarked M1A1 style bolt for a new condition Savage manufacture M1 bolt from IMA.

Haven't fired the beast yet.

Now off to PK to bring the gun to GI specs and to make it resemble an early GI M1, with plain, flat pivot and safety, non-cross bolt stock, and plain Lyman "L" rear sight. Finish will be blued.

The gun seems fairly well made, except for roughness in the feed ramp and inside of the ejection port. The trigger pull is VERY heavy, and the front sight (marked AOC) is not pinned. Most internals are new condition original GI.

Best regards and wishes for a great 2004!

Attached Files


  • 0

#2 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 01 January 2004 - 12:31 PM

TSMGguy: Congratulations on your new arrival! biggrin.gif How long did the double form 4 transfers take? The wait must have seemed forever. Any glitches we should be warned about? unsure.gif
  • 0

#3 96lt1ss

96lt1ss

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Home of the St Valentines Day Masacre

Posted 01 January 2004 - 12:36 PM

So what does a Unfired M1 go for if you don't mind ?
  • 0

#4 TSMGguy

TSMGguy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West of the Pecos, Texas
  • Interests:Motorcycles, old airplanes, and guns.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 12:49 PM

Hawksnest: The nine month wait for this TSMG is the second longest nine month wait I've ever endured! The seller was actually acting as a middle man between the original owner and my dealer here in Texas. He insisted on a form 4 transfer, rather than a much faster form 3 transfer. That was the first three months. I submitted my form 4 the very day that the first transfer arrived approved. After three months, it was kicked back for lack of a "citizenship certification", which neither I nor my dealer knew about! A further three months went by until approval. All well that ends well!

Attached Files


  • 0

#5 Jay Baker

Jay Baker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 499 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta GA
  • Interests:Firearms, history, science fiction, old movies.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:11 PM

Congratulations, TSMGguy. Do you plan to shoot it before PK works on it? Are the WH bolts so different from a surplus bolt? I ask that because I got mine a couple of weeks ago and it still had the WH bolt. The dealer said he thought the previous owner had swapped them out. What parts on the M1A1 must be replaced to ensure reliability? I plan to shoot mine in a couple of weeks and make any necessary adjustments based on its performance. I'm also interested in finding out how to identify certain internal parts as original military surplus or postwar fodder? Anyway, best of luck with the new tommy! I know how excited you must be. biggrin.gif
  • 0

#6 TSMGguy

TSMGguy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West of the Pecos, Texas
  • Interests:Motorcycles, old airplanes, and guns.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 02:12 PM

Jay Baker:

Sounds like you just got one of these as well?

I will shoot the beast before sending it off to PK, if for no other reason than just to see how much better it works on its return.

I hope PK will see this and wade in on the WH M1A1 bolt question. I understand that the WH bolts can be badly out of spec. Just holding the WH and Savage produced bolts next to each other, I can see obvious differences, including that the WH bolt is about 1/16" longer than GI. Then there's the safety question: the firing pin on the M1 bolt does not protrude past the bolt face until the front of the bolt nearly makes contact with the receiver. Cartridges thus cannot be fired by the firing pin when slightly out of battery, as occasionally happens with M1A1 style bolts.

Original parts can be pretty easy to identify; most will have the manufacturer's stamp, generally "S" or "AOC". There were other subcontractors as well. The post war parts on this gun include the sear, trip, and magazine catch. All are rather crudely cast, and have a reddish-purple color, making them easy to spot without even having to look for the maker's marks. The front of the trip where it catches the bolt is especially rough, producing an extremely heavy trigger pull. I would worry about this damaging the slot in the bolt, and so will not try to fire the gun until the WH parts are all replaced with GI, which is easily done.

  • 0

#7 21 smoker

21 smoker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1333 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West coast ,FL
  • Interests:collecting nfa, old cars, huntin` n fishin`, reloading ammo

    NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR
    MVPA RESTORATION MEMBER
    MARINE CORP LEAGUE PISTOL TEAM MEMBER

Posted 01 January 2004 - 02:41 PM

TSMGguy,...Congrats!...We are all pretty much NFA here, so we know about waiting and paper foulups.IMO you should try to fire it before you send it to PK, that way it won`t be so hard to part with it for 4 more months.If it is any thing like my WH28,don`t waste your time trying to make it work,I tried for 6 months and no go.Mine was unfired and a POS!,even after swapping out all the internals. The military and Colt butt stocks wouldn`t even slid on the frame,... that`s how poorly they are machined.I`m not trying to bum you out..just trying to save you some time and grief.My transfer also was kicked back.... citizen paper,treasury to justice new forms,etc.It`s a good thing it was not my first NFA,... Soooooo...test fire,call PK and say hello to my lil`freind... my WH28 is already there.KEEPEM`SMOKIN`,out. wink.gif
  • 0

#8 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4555 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 05:30 PM

Great looking M1. I only have one complaint. Why did you lay it on the rocks to take a picture! AAAAGH! Mine have their own blanket to lay on when I'm out if I don't have a stand.

  • 0

#9 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 01 January 2004 - 05:42 PM

Full auto 45: The beach at Normandy is rock covered, not blanket covered. tongue.gif
  • 0

#10 TSMGguy

TSMGguy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West of the Pecos, Texas
  • Interests:Motorcycles, old airplanes, and guns.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 06:02 PM

Thompson on the rocks -- I'll have a double, please! Actually, the gun is held up off of the rocks by a hunk of dark colored closed cell foam. After I had finished "posing" the gun, I dashed inside to get the camera. I came back outside to find the dog sniffing the gun. If he had lifted his leg. . . well, I would have missed that dog!
  • 0

#11 Walter63a

Walter63a

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1430 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Guns (Thompsons, Lugers, and Walthers mostly), History, Politics, Education, Nature, etc.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 06:08 PM

Congratulations on the new arrival! I wish I had one! smile.gif biggrin.gif Regards, Walter
  • 0

#12 Jay Baker

Jay Baker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 499 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta GA
  • Interests:Firearms, history, science fiction, old movies.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 07:35 PM

TSMGguy, I went back and re-read your post. I see that you have the M1 bolt. Big difference compared to the M1A1. I saw Frank's article in SAR about the early bolts having a faster cycle. Looks like I'll be looking for a new bolt, at least!
  • 0

#13 TSMGguy

TSMGguy

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West of the Pecos, Texas
  • Interests:Motorcycles, old airplanes, and guns.

Posted 01 January 2004 - 08:49 PM

Jay Baker, try IMA. The M1 bolt that they sent me was in perfect condition, and included the extractor, firing pin, firing pin spring, hammer, hammer spring, and hammer hinge pin. I couldn't have been happier with the purchase.
  • 0

#14 mp40

mp40

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 591 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington state
  • Interests:Collecting guns(what else?) cars (fords) and collecting modelguns (a primarily Japanese hobby, plastic/zinc hi-tech cap guns)

Posted 01 January 2004 - 09:15 PM

I have a question, the hammer abutment point on the M1 (and for that matter, the 1921/28)...Was this area hardened especially for the wear and tear of the hammer hitting it? and is this area hit by the M1A1 bolt too?
  • 0

#15 PK.

PK.

    Technical Expert

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CO, USA
  • Interests:Full time gunsmith who loves Thompsons, 35+ years experience.

Posted 02 January 2004 - 10:44 AM

M1A1 Bolts: Those made by A/O WH were of very poor quality and I would not recommend firing a single round or even letting the bolt go home forcefully in a gun outfitted with one. Not all were overly long, but I have encountered two that were long enough to reach the chamber end of the barrel and cause damage severe enough to stop function. Most other dimensions are not good but also not as damaging.

Many of the problems encountered and corrected in WH M1’s are in the (incomplete) machining of the receiver. I have seen bolt pockets that were twisted, over size, undersize or had corner radiuses that would not let the buffer seat except on the edges, among other things. All of this and more can be corrected or accounted for, but can cause a lot of grief in the mean time.

The hammer in the M1 contacts the inside of the receiver at the same point as does a 28 model. No special hardening is done to the receiver at this point. It does wear and can be rebuilt, but I have not seen a gun that required it to be done due to normal wear & tear. I have rebuilt this area on guns that were undersized from the factory.

  • 0

#16 must

must

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 203 posts
  • Location:northern Utah
  • Interests:all Thompsons, M1 carbines, & early Mustangs

Posted 02 January 2004 - 09:37 PM

I would not shoot ONE round thru the WHM1 until PK looks at it! My WHM1 was new in the box & here are some of the problems PK found: loose barrel, cast magazine catch, bolt was too long & damaged the inside of my chamber, the inside of the receiver was machined roughtly, & the forearm gripmount broke!!!! sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif PK fixed all the problems & even installed a G.I. rear sight inplace of the WH cheapo that was on it (it was a AOC from my parts kit). The gun is the most relieable gun I own!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif It is even better than my S&W 9mm pistol (wish I could carry it for my conceal/carry gun). Enjoy the heck out of it!!! P.S. The ammo I shoot in it that works all the time is Seller & Bellot & Armscor. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
  • 0