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Colt 3rd Gen Drum Id - Rki


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#1 Sig

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:15 AM

I am sure there are plenty of drum RKI's here.
Could anyone help me confirm heritage of these plates?
Thanks in advance.

Back plate
http://www.villageph...selected=383732


Front plate
http://www.villageph...selected=383732

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#2 gijive

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 07:38 AM

Hi,

The drum you show is either a late model Colt manufactured drum (no serial number provision) or a first model Worcester Press drum. It is 1930's vintage and looks to be in nice shape. It is a drum made exclusively for the Colt made guns.

If the rotor is nickel colored it is an earlier drum, if the rotor is blued it is a Worcester Press drum.

Hope this helps.
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#3 hawksnest

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 07:43 AM

Sig: My first impression is a "Plain Colt L Drum" UNLESS THERE ARE TACK WELDS in addition to the rivets. See pages 330 - 336 of Thompson: the American Legend the first submachine gun by Tracie Hill. If so it is rare.
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#4 deerslayer

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:33 AM

It wouldn't have been made for the 1921 colt with 1928 winding instructions on the front cover. I'll dig my Richardson drum book out tonight if someone hasn't come up with more definate results by then.
Dan
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#5 gijive

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:53 AM

HI,

It obviously was made after 1928, hence the 1928 winding instructions. That is why I indicated it was 1930's vintage. Hawksnest is correct, if it dosen't have the spot welds in addition to the rivets, it the last model (no serial number provision) Colt made drum.

It still would be helpful to know the color of the rotor.
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#6 bug

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 09:00 AM

I'll go for late unnumbered Colt. Along with all posted above, note comma after N.Y.
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#7 Bruce V 21/28

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 01:53 PM

What is the value of the third generation drums?
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#8 gijive

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:06 PM

Probably in the $1,200.00 range, although I have seen them listed for more.
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:41 PM

$2,500 to $3,000 for a numbered matching Colt L drum, $2000 to $2,500 for mismatched numbered, $1500 to $2000 for non numbered, and $1000 to $1500 for Third Generation. The WWII L drums should be had for around $750 while West Hurley's fall somewhere around $500. The Colt C drum is another matter.
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#10 deerslayer

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 04:36 PM

Dougs drum book would indicate what has already been said (page 66). 1928 colt drum. He lists a Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Co. as the maker. He also indicates the some were numbered some not. Originally a black oxide over sand blast. Its a great reference.
Dan


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#11 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:06 PM

I am not aware of any Third Generation L drums being numbered. Colt stopped numbering them after 5000 back in 1921. The numbers have nothing to do with the serial numbers on the Thompson's.
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#12 LIONHART

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:24 PM

There was a MINT all matching Colt Drum that sold on Gunbroker about four months ago for $1,200.00.
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#13 Bob

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:28 PM

That would be a good buy if it worked!
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#14 LIONHART

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:35 PM

Yeah, definitely a good buy!
That Drum was listed for a week or more. One would think it should have brought more than that...Good deal to whomever bought it!
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#15 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 07:28 PM

The only Colt L drum I have seen on Gunbroker for the last six months is the one for $3,800. If a matching numbered drum sold for only $1,200, how do those who pay over $800 for a West Hurley drum feel? Maybe it did not have a nickel rotor, or was a repro?
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#16 Zamm

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:01 PM

After Reading Frank's most excellent book, "American Thunder",
I was surprised to learn that a company based in Brooklyn was given a goverment contract to produce 50 round drums and stick magazines. According to Frank's book, the New York District Ordinance Inspectors rejected all of the drums and sticks ( the company, The Charles Fischer Spring Company were suplied with some obselete mag drawings so I suppose they were doomed from the start). They were then all scrapped and the contract cancelled.
I think I shall go on a field trip in the following weeks to kent Ave. Brooklyn and see if the old building still exists, and better yet, if I can find an old timer who may have worked there and squirreled away a case of Fischer Spring 50 round Thompson Drums... Oh, I'll just by a lotto ticket! smile.gif
Cheers, Zamm
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#17 LIONHART

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:27 PM

Arthur,
No, it was a complete minty matching Colt "L" Drum...Yes, that other "L" Drum has been up there for well over a year. Same goes for his "C" Drum. Indeed, WH Drums have been listed at $800.00, though I doubt anybody has spent that kind of money for one. Who knows, maybe a few have. Most I've Paid has been $600.00. Though I recently spent less than $250.00 for a WH 50Rd Drum too. All it takes is spending some time looking. It can save a person $$$$
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#18 Sig

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:39 PM

OK so the drum is either 3rd Generation Colt or Worcester, which is what I was wondering.

If a blue rotor (it's nickel) then it would be Worcester and is a new piece of information to me not mentioned in Hill's book.

My review of the font's specifically shown in Hill's book on page 331 makes me believe I am looking at a REAR plate from a Colt 3rd Generation. Looking at the FRONT plate and page 332 it seems from the fonts it is a Worcester.
The fonts are specifically mentioned in Hill's book as being different from the Colt 3rd Gen to the Worcester.
These are very subtle differences noted only when I look at where the letters alignment over the next row.
Hill's book mentions tack welds for the Worcester I have no idea how to determine that with this picture any ideas?

Thanks
Michael

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#19 hawksnest

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 12:44 AM

If there are any tack welds they should be very noticeable as you inspect the plates. I do not see any tack welds in your pictures.
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#20 Sig

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 05:52 AM

Yes
That what makes this so wierd to me. The font spacing makes it seem as a Worcester. The tack weld makes it seem like a Colt.
I am soooo confused!
Michael
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