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Colt 3rd Gen Drum Id - Rki


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#21 Walter63a

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 07:53 AM

Sig, you're not alone. I sold what I believed to be, and still believe was, a Worcester L-Type drum a few months ago on this board for $1,000 to a gentleman in Ohio. I posted pics of the nickel internals, yet no one at the time said it might be a Colt. I do not know, based on Tracie Hill's book, that nickel internals are exclusive to Colt originals. I believe that the Worcester drums also had nickel internals. Correct me, if I am wrong, anyone. I, too, would like some clarification on this. blink.gif Regards, Walter
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#22 LIONHART

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 05:46 PM

Not sure whether or not the Worcester Drum had a Nickel Rotor. I'm inclined to believe that they did. The only WW2 Drum that I know of that came furnished with a Nickel Rotor would be a Crosby. Worchester Drums are marked W.P.S. CO.
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#23 gijive

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 06:35 PM

Sig,

Here is a picture of the differences between your drum and the Worcester Press drum. According to Doug Richardson's Drum Book, the drum you pictured has the identical font spacing of the 1928 Colt drum magazine pictured on Page 65 of his book.

Note the line-up of the "S" under the "I" on the Worcester drum and the "S" between the "N" and "E" on the Colt drum. Also the "5" of .45 lines up under the "G" on the Colt and between the "G" and "U" on the Worcester.

This would be the last style Colt drum before the Worcester Press drums. Enjoy the photos:

user posted image
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#24 Walter63a

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 06:52 PM

Thanks gijive, I think I may have sold a Colt. ohmy.gif Oh well, live and learn, I guess. unsure.gif Regards, Walter
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#25 Sig

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 10:48 PM

Thanks Chuck
Learned a bunch tonite.

Michael
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#26 Sig

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 09:54 AM

I honestly believe looking at Hill's book that I am looking at what is referenced as a Worcester 2nd Generation.
So the more I look at Hill's book the more confused I am.

The drum font and spacing wise I am looking at looks to me is more like the Worcester 2nd Generation referenced on page 333 of Hill's book, fig. 366.

Looking at the face plates I can NOT note tack welds on fig. 363 & 365 yet I can see tack weld on gijive's photo's and Hill's on the 3rd Generation Worcester fig. 367. Yet Hill's book mentions tack welds.

Please someone tell me I am overanalyzing this or something. Unfortunately I do not have Doug's book.





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#27 gijive

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 10:05 AM

Sig,

I sent you a private email. I'll forward pictures from Doug's book to you via private email later tonight. The drum you pictured shows no tack welds. The Worcester drums have tack welds. The tack welds are easy to spot despite the rough finish of the drum.
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#28 PK.

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 02:04 PM

At the risk of allowing my “techno nerd” side to come out I just have to talk a bit about welding terminology.

A “tack” weld is a small weld used to hold parts in position prior to the final welding. The tack weld is normally consumed when the final welds are made.

The weld used on drums and most other sheet metal products are known as Resistance or “spot” welds.

Techno nerd mode off, thanks for putting up with me!

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#29 gijive

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 02:09 PM

Hi PK,

Appreciate your input and technical advice. Spot welds it is:-)
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#30 Whiskey Brother

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 10:54 PM

I apparently have the worcester drum, I saw the picture and thought to myself, "wait a minute, that's what I got! A Colt!" But then I saw the tack welds. Oh well...
Is that drum really worth $1000? If so, I'm still okay with it, as I only paid $60 for it at the Great Western Gun Show in California back in '92! Works great!
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#31 Walter63a

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 11:10 PM

Hi Whiskey Brother, I sold (earlier this year) what I and the buyer believed to be a Worcester L-Type drum, for $1,000. Anything out there is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and the seller is willing to accept. I am now convinced that what I sold was a Colt L-Type original drum. First, it had the nickel rotor. Second, I don't remember spot welds. Third, there definitely were no 'W.P.S. Co.' markings on any of the parts. As I said before, you live and learn, sometimes. ohmy.gif Regards, Walter
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#32 Whiskey Brother

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 11:46 PM

Yes indeedy....
It's funny you bring up the worth of things as regards what people are willing to spend, and what the buyer is willing to take. When I found my drum, I was digging through a mound of what looked like junk at a back stall at the "Great Western Gun Show". Towards the bottom I was happy to see the familiar drum shape I had been searching the Great Western Gun show for two days for, without any luck. (I miss those seven miles of tables! A pox on the LA city council mad.gif ...) I asked the grizzled old proprieter what he would take, and from the sparkle in his eye he probably thought $60 was a hefty price for a "city looking LA area dude" like me. I didn't attempt to haggle, I just forked over 3 twentys before he got his wits about him, and took off with my prize... biggrin.gif Needless to say, I thought it was worth maybe 3 or 4 hundred tops, but I am happy to see that either Clintons gun laws have drove the price way up, or there is still a lot of Thompsons out there with owners demanding drums!
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#33 Walter63a

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 11:55 PM

Whiskey Brother, that was definitely a steal (courtesy of the Clinton gun/magazine ban laws, the very real demand for all original Thompson accessories, and your quick action). As it has been said, "one man's garbage is another's treasure." smile.gif Regards, Walter
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#34 Grey Crow

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 10:36 AM

After reading all of the posts carefully, I dug out my L drum, it has spot welds, a blue rotor, no serial numbers, no comma, no drain slots, and no W.P.S. Co. on it.
From the gist of the conversation I have what I believe to be a Worcester drum. I bought it a few months ago on GunBroker and gave 1,179.00 for it.


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#35 gijive

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 10:48 AM

The original contract Worcester drums don't have any WPS markings on them. The later WWII produced drums have the large WPS letters on the back.

There is nothing wrong with the Worcester drums and they function as well as the earlier ones. They are identical to the earlier Colt drums and were contracted to be made for the Colt guns in the 1930's. They are the most common of the New York address drums and command more than the WWII Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport, CT address drums.

They usually sell in the $1,200.00 range.
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#36 LIONHART

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 12:52 PM

I had one of these Drums. Sold it to a fellow by the name of Ralph Weaver in 1992 for $550.00 Though the one that I had was painted black. Must have been done long after it left the factory. Didn't appear original. And it did indeed have a Nickel Rotor. Sorry for any confusion, as I wanted to know what Drum we were trying to figure out. GI pointed the fact out, that the WW2 version did have the WPS markings on the back. Prior to that, they did not...
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#37 Walter63a

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 02:33 PM

Hi all, just to add to the confusion, "I wonder if, over the past 70-80 yrs., individuals, gunsmiths,etc. didn't switch rotors (blue vs. nickel), the way front and back covers on the C and L-Type drums have been noted to have been switched." blink.gif Regards, Walter
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#38 gijive

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 04:03 PM

Walter,

Absolutely, I'm sure that happend more than once.
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#39 LIONHART

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 05:02 PM

Indeed!, Often you will encounter Serial Numbered Colt Drums mismatched. sad.gif
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#40 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 05:31 PM

If only Colt, like P-08 Lugars, had numbered all of its internal parts, barrel, Cutt's, vertical and pistol grip, as well as the rest of the L and C drums over 5000, to match the receiver and frame number. Then we would really see the degree of true "origninality" of the remaining 15,000 TSMG. At least with the numbered drums, one knows what one is getting, even if the rotors are not numbered to match.
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