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Assault Weapons Ban And Sunset


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#21 Balder

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 03:11 PM

Ok guys, I realize that I'll probably receive a lot of flak for this and I may be pouring gasoline on the fire - but I still want to give you a foreigner's (or alien, as your Immigration services prefer to regard me) view on some issues of American politics (I'm Norwegian).

I am married to an American woman, I teach UK/US culture, language and history at high school level. I read the on-line editions of the Washington Post, USA Today and the New York Times every day - and I am a gun collector. In general, I pay a lot af attention to what is going on over there, in terms of guns and in terms of politics and general society.

What strikes me as odd is that the political debate in this forum centers around guns. Maybe not that odd, after all this is a forum for gun owners, but I am left with the impression that you guys will let the gun issue; be it concealed carry, assault guns, silencers or general registration of the guns, be THE ruling factor when you're casting your vote in the upcoming elections. That worries me.

It may not come as a surprise that your present president is not too popular over here. He appears illiterate and not very understanding of other countries' politics and sociology; to us he represents a cowboy culture that we thought was extinct, at least when it comes to politics.

I live in a country that was occupied by the Germans from April 9th 1940 until May 8th 1945. The Gestapo fired hundreds of rounds at my father (obviously unsuccessfully), my grandfather went to concentration camp, his brother was tortured to death and my uncle was heavily tortured. I, and the Norwegian population, have a LOT to thank the United States of America for; you're the main reason why we are still speaking Norwegian in this country and not German.

But the European goodwill and gratiude are fading, much thanks to your current president.

This may not concern you at all, after all he's your president and not ours; but I believe you must have noticed the lack of European support for your recent endeavors in Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a good thing overthrowing Mr. Hussein - but I think that the reasons for doing so were somewhat obscure.

In a true democratic way I try to use this forum to vent my opinions, please look up from your gun sights and see what's going on in the real world - the real world is not too concerned with our gun ownership rights.

Like it or not, the USA is the only superpower left - therefore you have to expect to be in the world's focus.

Respectfully,

Balder
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#22 LIONHART

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 03:22 PM

Simply put, FEAR THE GOVERNMENT THAT FEARS YOUR GUNS!
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#23 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:06 PM

Yeppers I am a one issue voter because I feel that once the second amendment is destroyed there is not much hope keeping the rest. I'm tired of being told to vote the lesser of two evils but it is a political reality now and has been for a long time. Give me two pro gun candidates and I will check out the issues.... Until then if they want my guns, then they don't want my vote.
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#24 LIONHART

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:14 PM

Lets take a look where Gun Control has been VERY successful. All of the following is being quoted from a fantastic new book titled, "Enemies Foreign And Domestic", by Matthew Bracken.


DURING THE 20TH CENTURY, OVER 100 MILLION CIVILIANS WERE KILLED BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS, MORE THAN IN ALL 20TH CENTURY WARS COMBINED. IN EACH CASE, EXTERMINATION FOLLOWED GUN CONTROL.

1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1929: The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, 40-60 million "class enemies", unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1935: China established gun control. From 1948-1952, 20 million Chinese "class enemies", unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Catholics, Gypsies and others, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Nazi controlled Europe.

1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975-1977, one million "class ememies", unable to defend themselves were exterminated.

1966-1976: China still had gun control. Millions of more "class enemies", still unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Mao's "Cultural Revolution".

1990s: Rwanda established gun control. In 100 days in 1994, over 800,000 Tutsis, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated by machete-wielding Hutus backed by armed government militias.

NEVER AGAIN!

WE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE LED LIKE LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER BECAUSE IN A MOMENT OF NAIVE OPTIMISM WE ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE DISARMED!
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#25 LIONHART

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:19 PM

For those who may be interested in the book, "Enemies Foreign And Domestic", it can be ordered on Amazon, or though the following site. It took about 4 days to read, as it is almost 600 pages. http://www.EnemiesFo...AndDomestic.com
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#26 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:24 PM

Ya need to learn to cut and paste dood!! LOL Look here----->




The book here.
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#27 Walter63a

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:48 PM

Balder, those sources that you mentioned are very heavily left-leaning, especially The New York Times and The Washington Post. I would suggest that you take a look at www.Foxnews.com and www.drudgereport.com, as these sources, while not perfect, are considerably more balanced. The Drudgereport, in particular, offers stories from all over the world and the U.S., reported by linking directly to the articles at other news outlets. Also, at the bottom of the Drudge Report, you will find links directly to newpaper websites, television news websites, and AP, UPI, Reuters, etc. I think that I and the majority of American gun owners are quite aware of the 'real world', like the 'ethnic cleansing' in the former Yugoslavia, the religious killing in Northern Ireland, the daily slaughter on both sides of the Palestinian/ Israeli conflict, and the growing violent crime rate in Great Britain (since gun control measures were imposed upon her subjects in 2000). If we Americans seem not to care about the opinions of the 'real world', I would only point out that there are no utopias out there to emulate. Respectfully, Walter

P.S. When we hear people from France and the United Nations uging us to ban small arms, as they have been doing for two decades, we just laugh and think, 'You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands.'!
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#28 Walter63a

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:06 PM

Balder, you have stated that our president is not too popular, in part, because he appears to be illiterate and a 'cowboy'. All I can say about that, is that, at least he , unlike another famous president and graduate of the same august institution of higher learning (Yale University), seems to know what the meaning of the word "is" is, respects women, is not a drug addict and is honest! We Americans do not implicitly, nor unconditionally, trust our 'leaders', nor those of the 'real world.' We value our guns as a hedge against tyranny! Perhaps, we would merely like to avoid what you, in Europe, experienced not too terribly long ago! ohmy.gif sad.gif blink.gif mad.gif cool.gif Regards, Walter

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#29 SgtMartin

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:18 PM

i think both of the sides of this argument should just forget about this for the time being, do your upmost to preserve it and dont take for granted that you can actually fire your weapons(at present anyway.)
But hell, i still love my de-ac even if she doesnt fire! biggrin.gif plus i should be buying myself an m1 carbine in a month or so tongue.gif biggrin.gif
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#30 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:23 PM

Balder,
Maybe Bush 43 is not comme il faut, but his wife, the eminence grise, is a nice person. Even the French like her.

Walter,
It is a good thing the patriotic blonde is aiming a West Hurley, if it were a Colt TSMG, I might have been distracted from her charms.

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#31 Walter63a

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:25 PM

Arthur, I almost wouldn't blame you! laugh.gif blink.gif smile.gif biggrin.gif Regards, Walter
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#32 The1930sRust

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:28 PM

Arthur, speak frenchie one more time on this site and your OUTTA HERE! laugh.gif
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#33 Walter63a

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:32 PM

Arthur, what do you mean our President may not be 'proper"? I am scandalized!! ohmy.gif biggrin.gif blink.gif laugh.gif
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#34 Mario Scarpino

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:19 PM

Thanks Walter63A and Lionhart for your responses to the guy in Europe. All of this reminds me of a guy here in central Missouri who owns a 1928A1, lend lease gun from WWII. I can't remember the exact engraving on the gun, but its something like "When finished please return to Mr. Smith" or "Property of Mr. Smith please return". This might the gun that helped fight off the Nazis from the European's ancestors. If not for the founding fathers, the Second Amendment and a free United States, I think Hitler could have achieved his goal. (Or were there other countries that had law abiding citizens who owned submachine guns that were willing to LOAN their private firearms to foreigners to help fight off evil)? I guess France and England were fresh out of firearms!!

So it appears our Second Amendment has played a significant role in the history of not only the United States but the World!

I used to think the one issue crowd (pro-abortion comes to mind) was extreme. Their vote hinged on one issue! But I am now to the same point. I think its time to wake these clowns up. If we can't "save" the Second Amendment, I think we are finished as a free country within the next 20 -30 years.

I think "saving" the Second Amendment starts with the sunsetting of the AW ban. If we get ANY MORE anti-gun legislation signed by any president in the near or distant future, we will end up losing the Second Amendment. We have to start somewhere and 2004 is as good a time to start as any.

Things have to change!!!!!

The reason Europe doesn't like Bush is he talks like the rest of us here in the mid-west; direct, to the point, means what he says and is willing to back it up.

Thanks,
Mario Scarpino
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#35 Walter63a

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:03 PM

Thank-you Mario! All I can say is that, "If you don't value your freedom, you will lose it!" blink.gif sad.gif ohmy.gif cool.gif
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#36 Zamm

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:19 PM

Uh hmm,
Shall we leave our personal politics aside and keep focused on the main issue, which is this damm assualt weapons ban.
I think we all have a common interest at stake here, no matter what our politics, religous beliefs, who put more coke up his nose, Clinton or Bush, etc...
We have to stay focused at the county and state level, then - on to the big picture.
I'm fighting like hell here in NY, most of these crap laws are written by local idiots in my state!
I write, email and phone to let all the others know how I feel (congressmen and women, local senaters etc...) and also to get other people involed. And when it comes time, I use my vote to try and get the bad ones out, though we really are in an uphill fight in NY. These guys are dug in like ticks!
Find out what your local representitives and congress folks are voting, and let them know where you stand. The more feedback these folks get, the more it sticks in thier minds come voting time ( both for bills and for thier re-election!)
No ones getting my Westy!
Cheers, Zamm
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#37 Charlie

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 10:07 PM

Thanks you guys. You articulated what I was thinking better than I could have said it. Thanks again for saying it.


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#38 Sgt. Fox

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:06 PM

Have you guys seen the proposed renewal bill yet? It's vastly expanded and pretty scary. Specifically bans semi-auto Thompsons by name.

Here's a copy:
http://66.102.7.104/...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


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#39 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:14 PM

"a semiautomatic assault weapon; or 11‘‘(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding de-12vice.’’; and 13(2) in paragraph (2)—14(A) in subparagraph (cool.gif, by striking the 15period and inserting a semicolon; and 16(cool.gif by adding at the end the following: 17‘‘© a semiautomatic assault weapon; or 18‘‘(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding de-19vice.’’. 20SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMU-21NITION FEEDING DEVICE. 22(a) INGENERAL.—Section 922(w) of title 18, United 23States Code, as amended by section 7(cool.gif(1) of this Act, 24is further amended—25"

Large capacity amunition feeding device... WTF kind of wording is that? Man that is some wack stuff!!!!

HA HA it has hidden code... Not that it is something to laugh at but I love the way the semi colons translate...§;-)

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#40 Zamm

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:23 PM

Sgt. Fox,

Exactly! No more semi's!
That would effectively put Kahr out of production ( although they are doing a pretty good job of it themselves smile.gif )

They will dick with this bill, try to get as much into it as possible, then tag it to another pressing bill at the last minute, where everyone will vote "yes" for the pressing bill.

Bloody political dirty tricks, and my senators and congress people are practiced pros at this crap!

And thats why no politicos want to have any form of line item veto come across the board. It all boils down to pork!

Write, call and be heard.
Zamm
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