57 replies to this topic

[junglewalk]

I would not live in a state that is not free...Hello Zamm, get out of NY, I lived there, and now live in a free state,Ky............(Love that Blonde,she must have a W/Hurley(hey that's my name)named to be close to her)
Blader, I spent 12 years in Germany, in various tank Battalions, waiting for the Soviets to attack, just to save your ass in the low countries/western europe(both my kids were born on the Rhine)...I went with thousands of my fellow soldiers to Vietnam to take on the commies, to run over them with our tanks and Acavs, shooting their stinking asses, to try and save the South Vietnamese from the skanks in the north... ..I don't remember seeing any europeon military units there beside us in the fight, there were South Korean units and two great Austrailian Armored Cavalry Squadrons with us, fighting the same commie doctrine & actions that might have been unleashed from eastern Europe, on to the west at any moment. .......
Now, fanatical muslims have attacked the U.S., REMEMBER!...we lost 3,000 folks in one day!!!..These fanatics are our new enemy, we didn't want this!...........You say we here are so narrow minded & too focused on the gun issue....Well, it just seems that our political leaders who have no qualms about gun ownership, and are pro-gun, also are strong leaders, who focus on a strong defence....
Right now we have a democratic primary going on...all these pukes running are for a 'cut & run' policy, sorta-like what you europeons are for in the middle east, to coincide with a 'sitting duck' policy too. ....All of them, are for big restrictions in gun-ownership in America, and are opposite of what the guys above me have expoused, with great skill, as to what gun-ownership means to us, as Americans................
While you non-gun owning mambie-pambie europeons sit scared with your fingers up where the sun don't shine, we Americans led by what you call a 'Cowboy', are fighting an enemy in the middle-east, that knows no reasoning, wants no compromise, and wants you and us dead at all costs.........I introduce an American gun-owner, while battling these fanatical muslims for us and you gutless europeons, was KIA on 30Jul03, northeast of Bagdad, Lt.Leif E.Nott,xo of Atrp, 1/10th Cav, 4th ID, he is my son-in-law,on right,.....no cut & run now......How about you non-gun owning Europeons lending a hand...........................jw

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[Walter63a]

I fear for the future of my nation!

[Walter63a]

JW, the European and U.N. 'real world' leadership must be complete morons.....sort of like professor poindexter telling me why Hitler can't be defeated, and we should just accept the inevitable! Regards, Walter

P.S. Lt. Leif E. Nott, rest in peace! Thank-you!

[Zamm]

Junglewalk,
Luckily, I live on Long Island, which is close (1 hour) to NYC, but is a bit more relaxed (we actually have outdoor ranges and can own guns!) then NYC.
But, I'm a New Yorker at heart, born and raised here, and at this stage in my life, I'm not sure what I would do without Metropolis. So, somebody's gotta stay and try and curb these politicos!

As for your letter, it said it all, very well and to the point with just the right kind of articulation!
I'm going to have a drink for your son in law right now, as a way to remember what he paid for us to be able to.
Thanks are not enough for this type of sacrifice, but it's all I can offer.
Thank you

Zamm

[Zamm]

Phil,
Quite elloquent, glad you put that on the board.
Best, Zamm

[Balder]

QUOTE (junglewalk @ Jan 19 2004, 11:28 PM)

Blader, I spent 12 years in Germany, in various tank Battalions, waiting for the Soviets to attack, just to save your ass in the low countries/western europe(both my kids were born on the Rhine) While you non-gun owning mambie-pambie europeons sit scared with your fingers up where the sun don't shine, we Americans led by what you call a 'Cowboy', are fighting an enemy in the middle-east, that knows no reasoning, wants no compromise, and wants you and us dead at all costs......... ......How about you non-gun owning Europeons lending a hand...........................jw

Gentlemen,

In deed I seem to have poured gasoline on the fire, I appreciate the feedback from all of you. I'd like to comment on each and every one, but time and space restrain me from doing so.

First of all, I am not anti-gun, on the contrary. I collect guns myself, some of which have been actively used by my family against invaders - and I am willing to use them again should such a situation occur. I think the 2nd amendment is worth fighting for, I wish we had something similar here.

What I was trying to express was my hope that the leader of the free world would be elected on the basis of his total politics, not just a single issue. I still have that hope. I am not trying to tell anybody how to run their country, I just wanted to give you a European gun owner's view even though that means sticking my neck out.

As for the Iraq invasion, I said in my former post that I do support it, although not for the reasons given by your president and Mr. Blair. The weapons of mass destruction have yet to be found. The situation before the invasion was comparable to Europe in the late 30's. We saw a dictator rising, killing off his own citizens and showing a lot of aggression towards his neighbors. I think most people would say that an invasion of nazi-Germany before WW2 broke out would have been justified - those are my reasons for supporting the Iraq invasion.



junglewalk,

May I offer my condolences for the loss of your son-in-law.

However, I do not see the point of your tirade.

I spent 10 years as an army officer, also waiting in tanks and military installations for the Warsaw pact to attack. We do have armed forces over here, too. I am not a "non-gun owning mambie-pambie europeon" and my fingers do see daylight. Norway sent fighting forces (Special Forces, F-16 fighters) to Afghanistan, they're still there; we sent military support elements to Iraq - also still there. What more hands are you asking from a country with slightly more than half the population of New York City?

Regards,

Balder

[Walter63a]

Balder, do not take any of this personally. Many of us have European heritage. Americans just don't like being told how to run their nation (U.N. trying to get small arms banned in the United States of America). We welcome you and any other members of this board who are from Europe. Regards, Walter

P.S. Balder, you are right about sticking out when you are the World's only 'superpower.' Believe me, most Americans wear that crown reluctantly and heavily. We happen to be the World's policeman, at this moment in history. But would you want anyone else in that position. Perhaps Germany, China or France would like the job.

[Walter63a]

When America gets a call (figuratively or literally) to help anywhere in the World, we are there! Wouldn't it be strange if the next time there is a 'World crisis', there is a 'busy signal'?

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[hawksnest]

Well put Walter. But let us never forget our British allies, who have also sacrificed to make the world a safer place.

[Fencer]

Balder,

I think it is great to hear what you think about our politics, foreign policy, and our President.
Seeing the way we are viewed through outside eyes is very iluminating. I hope that 60 years after
their liberation, that the son and grandson of an Iraqi who was tortured and shot at by a brutal regime,
almost as bad as the Nazi's will have the same freedom you enjoy after the liberation of your relatives
back in 1945.

I just do not understand why the Europeans figure that they should have a say in our policy. We are joined by
treaty to defend them if they are attacked, not to tie our entire foreign policy to their veto. Friends are consulted
and then informed of actions, they do not get to veto them. If a country joins us in a military action they become
Allies, and then they do have a say in the prosecution of the war. I am sure that all the Gorvernments in Exile during
WWII wanted their country liberated first, but the good of the cause held the primary focus. People seem to forget that
the alliances of WWII do not exist anymore. England and France attacked the Suez Canal in '56 over our protests. Did that
shatter our friendships with those countrys? No. It took De Gaule to kick us out of our bases in France and to leave the NATO
alliance to do that, and still we consult France.

It is funny to me how American's are currently viewed by the Europeans, yet this is not surprising. We have always been looked
down on like the new kid on the block, inexperienced and inept.

I have been reading "Castles of Steel" by Robert K. Massie, which details the Naval war during World War I.
In it were glimpses into how the Germans viewed the U.S., back then. They figured we would be lucky to get 100,000 troops
to France. By Fall of 1918 we had over 2 Million there, with more divisions training in the US.

After deciding to reopen unrestricted U-boat warfare, the Kaiser, asked the American Ambassader what possibly America could do if
it did not like this decision. The Ambassader replied (paraphrasing as the book is at home)

"We invented the weapons you are using now, the airplane, the machinegun, the submarine, (several others were listed), I am
sure we will think of something."

After 228 years, they still don't understand. This country is the best of all the old world, brought togather in Freedom, without the
restrictions placed upon it by failed goverments, monarchies, and lost wars.

[Balder]

Gentlemen,

In my posts I am speaking as a Norwegian individual, not on behalf of the entire European population. I base my opinions on what I read, hear, see and experience - be it US politics or any other matter and/or issue. In deed we are looking at a lot of stereotypes here. I do not enjoy being pigeonholed, just as little as you do - I have done my very best not to apply European stereotypes of the American society to this debate. I am sorry to say that this principle has not been 100% reciprocal in this thread. I have spent a lot of time in your country and I know from experience that the stereotypes are just that - stereotypes.

I am not sure if the average American citizen fully fathoms the extent of the impact that the USA has on the rest of the world - politically, militarily, economically and sociologically. Whatever you do outside of your own country will always have consequences for the rest of the world - in many cases your domestic politics will also have a bearing on the outside world. I do not believe that gives us any right to interfere with your internal affairs, but I do think that it gives us a moral right to speak our minds about them - which is what I am trying to do.

As most Europeans have not physically been to the USA, they will base their perception and opinion of your society on what the media tell them. I believe that the very same thing happens when Americans form their opinions about Europe.

Regards,

Balder

[Walter63a]

Hawksnest, I had no intention of ignoring our most reliable ally, the British. The Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders have usually been at our side, as well. However, we, the U.S.A., are the one 'superpower', and the one nation most often looked upon for help. We also seem to catch the most flak from the rest of the World, when we don't do things exactly to their liking, and especially when things don't go smoothly, or as planned.

Balder, I certainly never meant to belittle your understanding of Americans, nor to pigeonhole you as a 'European'. We are a very vast and diverse lot, as you know. I also think that your country's, and your family's, experiences in WWII are very interesting and inspiring. I would like to know more. We Americans don't mean to sound heavy-handed. However, when you are the two-ton elephant in the World's tea shop, some china is likely to be broken! Regards, Walter

P.S. Do any of you really want this guy as our next President? "aaaaaarrrrrrrrhhhh!!!!"

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[Brickyard]

Walter,

One GREAT picture !!! Check out the eyes! There's a wire or two loose in there ...

Regards,

CJR

[Ron A]

Balder - I live in cowboy country and happy to live here.

Montana has seen the slow movement of people from the liberal states moving here and wanting to change the state of Montana "for the better" to be like New Jersy or New York or California.

When I moved here over 35 years ago Montana had the third largest wages in the nation, we are now 49th, next to the lowest in the nation.

We had timber, mining and cattle ranching. The liberals using out-of- state money, shut down mining, timber and are now working on the cattle rancher.

The issue is not just Guns, its freedom to live and enjoy the rights given to us by the Constitution, something this group want to reduce or destroy. The liberal papers you mention are a good example of the liberal viewpoint that has set out to take away the freedoms which we enjoy, some of which we have already lost. As yet we in Montana are not like some states which have lost many including the gun issues.

Its interesting that Europe enjoys the freedom from the Nazi's due to the "gun loving" Americans, Next time they should call upon the French!

[21 smoker]

Et. al., the question was asked `Who will protect our constitutional rights?`...the answer is... WE WILL! by VOTING!!!...it is the only way. Oh and btw I don`t care if it is a West Hurley... I`d still like to dump my mag with her!...KEEPEM`SMOKIN`,out.

[junglewalk]

Balder, I did not mean to use you personally as a punching bag....I respect your merrits as a soldier in doing your duty, and your nation's help in this battle in the middle east........As these great Americans in this thread have put it, it is this spineless thinking, & attitude that we are lashing out at...
All of the guys above, have worded things in such a way, that I can not add anymore in the way of describing our hard stand for the armed citizen in our country, and the same hard stand we take in the world, against the evil that exists.........
I must say, this whole thread should be printed and distributed in all the high schools in the nation, as a lesson in a part of the U.S. Constitution, and our obligations in a world that looks to us for leadership, in preserving freedom...........If you guys can shoot your Thompsons, as well as you put forth words, and hit the mark, there should be no sub-mg competition you 'all can't beat everyone.......
Thankyou all for your words & thoughts for my Lt.Leif Nott...jw

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

21 Smoker,
Yah, a premature dump might be refreshing for her......

[Grey Crow]

My concern is not only with the sunset of the existing law, but the addition of the others that place the 27 on the list as an assault weapon. Then they write on stating that all hi cap mags. will be banned with no statement of grand fathering. They also list nothing as to where or how the existing mags. will be dealt with. Can the original owner keep them, then how about resale? Do they get sent to the melting pot?

I really become uncomfortable with open ended laws.