Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

1923 Prototype(?)


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 gtbehary

gtbehary

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 8 posts

Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:02 PM

Has anyone ever seen a 1923 prototype? It had a heavy 14" barrel and a bipod.
gtbehary
  • 0

#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3471 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:09 PM

See Philisteen's post !!!
  • 0

#3 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4617 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:58 PM

I've seen touched and fondled the 1923 that Tracie Hill has at his house. Very nice. i would love to have one of those. And yes I would shoot that damn old thing. the only gun I have that I don't shoot is my 1881 W.W. Greener 10 gauge double barrel shotgun.
  • 0

#4 StoryforU

StoryforU

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 40 posts

Posted 16 January 2004 - 08:51 AM

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Jan 15 2004, 09:58 PM)
the only gun I have that I don't shoot is my 1881 W.W. Greener 10 gauge double barrel shotgun.

Why not?
  • 0

#5 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4617 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 16 January 2004 - 08:59 AM

I like the proper use of my shoulders.
  • 0

#6 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 16 January 2004 - 12:31 PM

I've been told the one that Tracie Hill has is a put together fake.
  • 0

#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3471 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2004 - 12:44 PM

How did Tracie Hill manage to get all those prototype Thompsons, some of which were in the crates sold by Maguire to Kilgore/Willis/Numrich, when he only started collecting in 1987?
  • 0

#8 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 16 January 2004 - 12:46 PM

In defense of Tracie Hill and to clarify previous posts, the gun that Tracie Hill has is a 1921 model that once belonged to Gen. John Thompson. It is supposed to have served as the prototype gun when the compensator was introduced. It does have the longer type barrel used on the 1923 Model and has a prototype compensator.

It is not a true 1923 Model as advertised in Auto-Ordnance literature, nor does Tracie Hill represent it to be a genuine 1923 Model. He represents it to be exactly what it is purported to be, an early model 1921 that was modified while Auto-Ordnance was developing the compensator and experimenting with different models to offer as sales samples.

The picture from China posted earlier actually looks like a legitimate 1923 model. I wonder where they would have gotten that?
  • 0

#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3471 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2004 - 01:00 PM

The Chinese 1923 TSMG may, or may not, be a genuine example, but one assembled from various parts. The buttstock does not have a sling swivel, and the bipod/attachment are different. Maybe they bought the counterfeit one from Hill? ....Just foolin'.
  • 0

#10 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 16 January 2004 - 01:03 PM

Gi, I know of no genuine 1923 Thompsons in existence. However, that China gun may, or may not be an authentic '23 Model. We don't know. I responded against Tracie Hill, when a reference was made of that gun being a '23. It is not, as you have also confirmed. I was told though, that the gun were speaking of that Tracie owns, was put together by Bill Douglas. Whether that is true or not, I'm unaware. I did sell Tracie Hill the only known 1924 Catalog, which covered the '23 Model, and the Auto-Ordnance "Auto-Rifles". To my knowledge, that was the only Catalog that I have ever seen that covered the '23 Model in great detail.
  • 0

#11 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3471 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2004 - 01:27 PM

There may have been only three original Thompson 1923 models made and these were sold to Finland. Maybe the Commies got the Fins to donate one?
  • 0

#12 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 16 January 2004 - 01:36 PM

Devlin,

I, like you, thought that the earlier post by Mike just needed some clarification regarding the 1923 Model claim. I have no idea who actually built the gun I just know that Tracie does not purport it to be a genuine 1923 Model. I wasn't trying to defend the veracity of the origin of the gun.

Arthur,

Good eyes on the lack of sling swivel on the butt stock. You're right the bipod doesn't look exactly like the one in the literature, but the barrel and fatter horizontal grip sure look like the ones in shown in the catalogue. What interests me is where the Chinese would come up with those parts even if they put one together from various guns. It seems rather odd that the Chinese would be so well versed in a rare prototype model of the Thompson submachine gun that they would make one up for display in their museum. I know they made copies of the Thompson, but to make a rare variation that didn't sell, that seems kind of strange?

On the other hand, I'm sure that these weren't issued to anyone during WWII or the Korean war, so where would they come up with something like that? Do you think it could have been an early sales sample that was sent to China way back when?

Whatever it is, I'd sure like to know the story behind it.
  • 0

#13 StoryforU

StoryforU

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 40 posts

Posted 16 January 2004 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Jan 16 2004, 08:59 AM)
I like the proper use of my shoulders.

That's why you fire it from the hip. wink.gif
  • 0