M1917 Rifle Manuals, A picture I took the other day to post on another board... Options

[dalbert]

All,

I thought members of Machinegunboards.com might like to see a picture I took for another forum, as it has a relation to the Thompson, and incorporates some of my other manuals. I'm also posting it here in case anyone might have more information regarding my M1917 short rifle.

Here's what I posted in the other forum:

Here is a picture of my Eddystone M1917 Rifles, along with my Model 1903 Colt New Army Revolver. Why the revolver? Some of you may know that I'm into Thompsons. What do Thompsons have to do with turn of the century revolvers and M1917 Rifles, you might ask? Well, they are all tied together through history by John T. Thompson, namesake of the Thompson Submachine Gun.

From 1901-1903, Captain John T. Thompson was the Inspector of Pistols for the United States Army. My Model 1903 Colt New Army Revolver bears his inspector initials of "JTT" at the top of the frame, just above and behind the cylinder on the left side.

In 1914, Colonel Thompson retired from the military to work for Remington Arms Co., and was given the responsibility to design and build the largest small arms production facility in the world at the time. This project became the Eddystone Plant in Pennsylvania, where P14's were made for the British, along with Mosin-Nagants for the Russians, and subsequently, U.S. M1917 Rifles were produced there. Thompson also previously supervised the development of the M1903 Rifle.

When the U.S. became involved in WWI, Thompson went back to the Army, and was promoted to Brigadier General. He became the Director of Arsenals, and was in charge of all small arms manufacturing, including U.S. M1917 Rifles.

The top M1917 in the picture is quite a nice example, and has the appropriate M1917 Kerr sling. In the lower left corner, you can see two original flyers (displayed front and back) that accompanied M1917 slings, showing how to install them on the M1917 Rifle. The Kerr Adjustable Sling is the appropriate sling for this rifle, although certainly M1907 slings were also used.

You may notice that the second rifle, also an Eddystone, is shorter than the one above it. This has been a subject of curiosity for me for more than 20 years. It appears to have been arsenal reworked into a shorter rifle. Nothing about this rifle says "sporter." There apparently were some M1917 Rifles that were shortened for use by Filipino troops. I have corresponded with Bruce Canfield about my rifle, and he does not believe it is one of the Filipino examples, and we could not come to a conclusion as to why it was shortened. The person it was purchased from in the 1980's indicated it had been shortened for Navy service, but I have never found documentation to support his claim. If anyone has further information about my short M1917 Rifle, please post here, or contact me at my e-mail address listed below.

The other paper items in the picture are a 1943 Base Shop Data manual for the M1917, a 1918 manual, and a 1918 Soldier's Handbook. I have also had many copies in the past of FM 23-6, which was published in two versions during WWII for the M1917 Rifle. I sold all my copies of these manuals, but I have included 2 pictures of different examples of them.

(IMG:http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Misc/M1917_Collection_Web.JPG)

(IMG:http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Misc/FM_23-6-11.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Misc/FM_23-6-4.jpg)

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[jim c 351]

Dave,
Very interesting "17.
As we know, at the end of WW1, the US had more 1917 rifles than 1903 rifles. I was always of the opinion that the sights on the 1903 rifle were horrible. They might have been OK on the range on a sunny day, but for combat they were horrible.
The 1917 sights were excellent for combat , but lacking for target shooting ,--large apperature--no windage adj. I guess this shows that the Ord Dept. thought it was more important to have a good target rifle than a good combat rifle. What can we expect from the same people that thought the TSMG was useless for the US Army.
By WW2 the Ord Dept agreed with me and made the M1903A3.
The 1917 was also a clumsy firearm due to its long barrel.
So--what would I have done if I was in charge? I would have made the 1917 the official US rifle. The 1903 would have been the substitue rifle and I would have stopped production.
I would have ordered all 1917 rifles to be modified to match your rifle, then the 1917 would have been as handy as the 03.
For match shooting I would have modified the rear sight with a smaller apperature and a windage adj , like the TSMG.
This would have been a superior rifle , equal to any bolt rifle in WW2.
Well, sadly, I wasn't in charge, so here we are.
Nice rifle.
Jim C