Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Signed Book By Roger Cox


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 full auto 45

full auto 45

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 4581 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking over your shoulder right now
  • Interests:Thompson's, Any Machinegun, Harley's and scuba diving. In that order.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:46 PM

I just saw this on EvilBay. Didn't someone on here just sale this at about half his asking price!? I'd be pissed if it had been mine.
Signed Roger Cox book

  • 0

#2 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:51 PM

Yup, there was such a book listed up here for around $250.00 I think. Yeah, I'd be pissed too. Oh well, someone on eBay will probably pay that!
  • 0

#3 Walter63a

Walter63a

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1430 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Guns (Thompsons, Lugers, and Walthers mostly), History, Politics, Education, Nature, etc.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:54 PM

As that, $500, is the starting bid, who knows what someone might eventually pay! sad.gif blink.gif mad.gif ohmy.gif cool.gif
  • 0

#4 Sig

Sig

    Respected Member and Board Benefactor

  • Moderator
  • 1630 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:12 PM

Looks a bit rough in one pic for that price for sure.
  • 0

#5 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:31 PM

Unless Roger Cox signed that book in jail, (which he didn't since it is a 1982 sig), his free world signature would not be worth an additional $150-$200.... But I must say that the tactic of buying the book on this board for the purposes of immediately turning it over for a greedy, if not unreal, sum, is not only mercenary, but slimy as well.
  • 0

#6 Ron Mills

Ron Mills

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:On the road, Glenn Miller Orch.
  • Interests:All Thompson models and accessories

Posted 19 January 2004 - 07:42 PM

Arthur, you folded me up at your opening line on that one! Yeah, one usually doesn't autograph his books in a 7x8 cell. And who knows how high it will go? I shake my head whenever I scoll down the Thompson heading on Evilbay. Used to be able to get some good deals on there; not anymore.

Carry on fellers,

Ron
  • 0

#7 Nick Iannamico

Nick Iannamico

    Founding Admin

  • Moderator
  • 906 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Drexel Hill, Pa. 19026

Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:05 PM

It doesn't seem to be the place for deals anymore unless it's something totally obscure...

I wanted to get my nephew an old school TCR slotless race track for christmas (they were made in the late 70's) you could not even get close to one for under $100 So I bought him a brand new one for $50 at the toy store. (although a slotted track)
  • 0

#8 RickV

RickV

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 113 posts

Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:09 PM

Folks,

I'm the one that sold the signed book on here about three weeks ago. The Flea-Bay seller is not the buyer of the book I sold. They're not even in the same State or area of the country. But, still, $500.00 seems to me to be off in La-La Land.

Rick
  • 0

#9 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:36 PM

What is it with this book?

Man -o- man, who is paying these prices for this thing. It was written in 82 and was published for $29.95, the photography is dreadful, and aside for some interesting tidbits, it's a pretty run of the mill coffee table rag. I mean pull the catalogue reprints out (which can be had on ebay for around 5-10 bucks each) and there aint 250$ worth of literature there.

God, give me Tracie's book or Frank's, they are far superior!

Christ, go to the library and take the book out, scan it, and be done with it.
$500.00 for what?! An autograph?

Man, I've got a first edition 1898 "Dracula" by Bram Stoker, cloth bound, letterpress printed and it's worth around $200... I guess there's a market for everything...

Just my 2cents
Zamm
  • 0

#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2004 - 10:50 PM

In defence of the author RC:
Roger Cox's book was the first publication that addressed the minutia of the Colt Thompson along with info regarding the first purchasers with their corresponding serial numbers. That is what makes the book desireable, and collectable. The pics are as good as any found in any black & white photo firearm book of that time, and it is a hardback. There have been some errors revealed in the book during the past 22 years, but it was still an original concept book containing information not available to the collector anywhere else.

GH's contribution to the Colt Thompson is a compendium, or as Herigstad himself calls it, "Serial Numbers." it was not breaking new groud, but rather an accounting of the whereabouts of the surviving 15,000 Colts. Hill's book is a natural extension of Cox's book with additonal info on prototypes and serial numbers, but with superflous production dates. Frank's book did not reveal new information on the Thompson, but rather compiled existing information into one guide, with a concentration on the WWII Thompson. I don't think xeroxing info in collector books to save the going price tag for a copy is the equivalent of downloading music off the internet. That is why there are copywrite laws to protect an authers work from being bootlegged.

  • 0

#11 gijive

gijive

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Thompson SMG, WWII, Firearms in general.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:09 PM

Well said, Arthur! The Cox book was the first serious look at the Thompson submachine gun and it's rightful place as a collector's item. I believe the book inspired others to conduct additional research and it was a pretty comprehensive account of the gun and it's history. In my opinion, Roger Cox did more to promote the Thompson as a collectible firearm than J. Curtis Earl.
  • 0

#12 GonePostal

GonePostal

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 101 posts
  • Location:Georgia

Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:30 PM

Why did Roger Cox wind up in jail?

Thanks.

GP
  • 0

#13 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:52 PM

Arthur,
Okay, I will accept your explanation of the book, thanks for clearing it up. I suppose at the time, the only other book was "The Gun that made the Twenties Roar".

Kudos to R.C. for the work. Those were the "tidbits" I was referring to.

As for the compiled list of serial numbers, great, it belongs on the internet. It is basic research material anybody can compile.

The re-printed Auto Ordinance catalogues, big deal... Again you can get that anywhere.

The gangster stuff, so what, you can get that anywhere also...

As for xeroxing copies, sorry, disagree with you there.
Cox does not see one penny of the secondary market ( as in "collector books"). I'd gladly pay 29.95 , or taking into account inflation, 49.95. if it went to Cox and his publishers. But, "collectors" have driven the price of a "limited" (as in "Colt" Thompson) amount of books off the charts. So, if I decide to go to the library and copy this book for my own research/collection/whatever, I don't see a problem with that.

Cox and his publishing co. is not seeing any of the $250-500 a copy.
I'm not "distributing" the copy from the library, that is, duplicating it for commerce.
And there are people who will "collect" anything. And as long as that exists, then the "market" will set the price.

Bottom line, the book is worth $50.00....
If Cox wants to make some more money on this book, great, reissue it. With the market being what it is, I'd say he would have no problem getting a deal at a reprint. I'd be the first to buy one and pay for his work.
But I don't think people should have to pay this kind of money ( secondary collector market) for information. If they want to own a hardcover oringinal fine, that's collecting something, but go to the bloody library if you just need data. And if you want to have that data for the future then bloody well copy it.

Another 2 cents
Zamm
  • 0

#14 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 20 January 2004 - 12:18 AM

Gone Postal,
I believe for selling NFA firearms without the proper papers, but I may be wrong...
Anybody?
Zamm
  • 0

#15 colt21a

colt21a

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3477 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:arizona desert.
  • Interests:Whatever we can do in Life

Posted 20 January 2004 - 12:21 AM

hey guys i bought the book,the one that was for sale here,you see i had about five copies of it some still in the padded mailer and signed..i sold them all over the past ten years,so i figured the last one i had ,was wd-40 stained,and mark's in it.

and i needed one with a dust jacket,the other one i framed crazy huh??so i bought it from rick............and he was great shipped it next day.............

its sitting in the book room along with all the other thompson book's...........funny somebody thought that was the same one sold here,don't jump the gun......you could be wrong!!!and you was................braaaappp!!!


have fun guy's.....take care,ron /colt21a
  • 0

#16 Zamm

Zamm

    Respected Member & Artist

  • Regular Group
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, New York
  • Interests:Thompsons, and all their goodies!<br>Obsolete Victorian Photomechanical processes,<br>Etching, Engraving and all Printmaking,<br>Entomology, specializing in Coleoptera,<br>Arachnology, specializing in Theraphosidae.

Posted 20 January 2004 - 12:25 AM

Ron/Colt21a,
What do you do for a living? Are you a proffesional "trouble maker" smile.gif
Thanks for the laugh I can go to sleep now!
Best Zamm
  • 0

#17 colt21a

colt21a

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3477 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:arizona desert.
  • Interests:Whatever we can do in Life

Posted 20 January 2004 - 12:47 AM

collected and sold thompsons for 35 years,

former marine,fitness instructer,ex-biker,{ex-assessor >state of illinois,}
ex-insurance agency owner,
dockworker,dishwasher,truckdriver,fry-cook,sale's rep,and general nice guy.................white collar, blue collar and no collar,

not in that order................oh and dealer for 33 year's........

you can say graduated from school of hard knock's, born with the five senses, and picked up horse and common along the way............with a little humor tossed in.....

now that you have the complete story paul harvey will tell you the rest.wink!! take care zamm,

the children of the night what beautiful music they make...
yep i like bram and mary"ala>frankenstein also...........ron colt/21a
  • 0

#18 Murray

Murray

    New Zealand Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 404 posts
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:1921 and 1928 Thompsons, Luger pistols.

Posted 20 January 2004 - 03:20 AM

One thing I would have to say about Gordons book, and I agree with you Arthur, is that I have never met any one so dedicated to the subject and the research of those 15,000 Colts and their history.
He is fanatical about it, and the book is interesting.. but a little on the heavy side, and I am refering to weight! not reading.
He lives every moment to find all about another number and the background and I can tell you that the miles between LA and Phoenix went real fast listening to him talk about the research he has done recently and not even published yet.
  • 0

#19 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3456 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 January 2004 - 10:56 AM

Zamm,
I suppose if you live in a non class III state the Cox book really doesn't have a lot of relevancy to your firearm collection. But the Cox book has been selling for $200+ for the last 15 years. That is not an indication of a superficially inflated price for the book to be selling for that amount now. Is $500 a crazy price? Sure, since the book can be obtained for $200+ elsewhere, but show me where there is a $50 version, that still has its cover, and all the pages? Unless it is a library version that has had the back serial numbers ripped out by some collector on an austerity program. Unless that library is the Library Of Congress, or the New York Public Library, I am not sure what local libraries even have this book on their shelves?

The idea that the book should never exceed the original 1982 selling price would also mean that all hard to find periodcials should also sell for their original figure, no matter how many decades have elasped since their date of publication. Of course some books never command more than their original selling price, such as the Helmer book, that has been selling for under $30 for the last 35 years. The publishers of the Hill book decided it was worth $88. GH decided his book is currently worth $210. The market place, not the author, or publisher, has decided that the Cox book is worth $200+ today.

  • 0

#20 21 smoker

21 smoker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1333 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West coast ,FL
  • Interests:collecting nfa, old cars, huntin` n fishin`, reloading ammo

    NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR
    MVPA RESTORATION MEMBER
    MARINE CORP LEAGUE PISTOL TEAM MEMBER

Posted 20 January 2004 - 11:56 AM

GonePostal,... from some second hand info(very reliable),Roger C. fought the ATF to sell NFA in Ga., and won legal battle to do so,but lost the war by drawing the ire of ATF. Tragic story,conflicting evidence,went to prison,bad personal stuff....sad,sad,sad.Studied law in jail,started new life...that`s all I know or care to post without invading privacy.out. wink.gif
  • 0