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#1 M1tommygun

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 06:26 PM

blink.gif Hya everybody. I just brought home yesterday my new SA M1 tommygun. I wanted a full auto, but they are WAY out of my price range. I have been wanting a M1 Thompson for years. I read the post about what form to get to register it for a short barrel, and what I need. Can I download the forms, or do I need to contact the BATFE to get the forms. I live in NC and the local Sheriff is very Pro-2nd amendment so getting it signed won't be a problem. I read the previous post about what to do with my new rifle after I have it home. Some very good info when I get ready to take it apart and clean it. Thanks. As soon as I can get my grubby paws on a USGI mag catch I am going to change to take surplus mags. I am getting ready to take some sand paper to the blocky pistol grip and try to round it out. I was reading in the old post about some of the problems with the semi-auto 27-As. Do the M1s have the same problems, such as bolt breakage, etc., etc. One last question. Is there any dimentional differance between the semi-auto and the full-auto as far as the outside of the receiver is concerned. I read somewhere the semi is smaller than the full. Just wonderring. It is a nice rifle overall, except the big honking barrel. I want to replace it as soon as I can get it approved, and no I do not have a short barrel smile.gif . I have read enough to know not to get one until approval. The feller who was making the spring kits for the semis in the old forum, has he started to market them yet? They sound good and I would like to get a set. Thanks in advanced.

Scott
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#2 John Jr

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 06:55 PM

http://www.titleii.com/pdf/NewF1.pdf

You will still need fingerprint cards. Call the BATFE and ask for 6, incase the person taking them screws up.

Make sure you get them from the ATF Forms Distribution center or they wont take them.

JR



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#3 Sgt

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 07:00 PM

The receivers on the SA Thompson are .1" smaller, measuring from top to bottom, than the full autos.

I don't own the M1 semi, but I believe they are the same design as the 27 semi, with the exception of the drum capabilities. It does seem that there are more complaints about the 27, but then again, the 27 owners are more frequent.
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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 08:54 PM

Actually, as far as the need for more than two finger print cards when the incidence of a smudged print arises, the person taking the prints is not going to start from scratch. After reviewing the prints for clarity, they will apply a stick-um to the smudged print and then reprint the stubborn digit. The civil service workers usually move at glacial speeds and to require them to start over after every mistake would allow for maybe two people being fingerprinted every hour.
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#5 LIONHART

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 08:56 PM

Hello folks.
The SA M1 and '27AI are the same. Same internals. Different Receiver and Barrel. Everything else the same. Bolt, Springs, Frame Parts, ALL the same. (Minus Compensator of course, and different Rear Sight, and Bolt Handle)
Special Springs and the Buffer?? David J. from what I hear had an operation. Hopefully, he'll be back on his feet soon, to fill those orders. NOTE: The West Hurley production Semi-Auto guns when first introduced had a different Bolt, Hold Open Feature, Modified M1 TSMG Frame, and some Internal Frame Parts differ than later ones. The "New" design took place around 1978 I believe. These "New" Parts that replaced the first version has never changed. Except for different style Firing Pins. In fact, kahr really hasn't changed the design either, except for Rear Sight Rivets, there using Screws, no Trap Door for the Buttplate, and the Compensators aren't threaded, but Pinned. However, hand fitting is usually required when replacing parts..BUT, Grip Mount styles went from the original TSMG 1/2" to West Hurleys own creation, the 3/4" Grip Mount. These have been seen on the '27A1 up until around 1982. The early first production guns featured Original TSMG Parts including Mag Catches/Compensators/Lyman Sights/Wood/ ect.
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#6 PK.

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 09:46 PM

Concerning changing magazine catches to original GI; itís not really necessary on a new Kahr gun to effect a change to unmodified GI magazines.

This practice became widespread (if thatís the word) when the quality of the magazine catches went through a real series of trials with very poor design and QC. Everything from red color to fabricated parts coming loose.

The current parts are much better; they blue nicely and the stud that engages the magazine is not a separate part that comes loose. These can be modified to accept the GI magazines just fine and spare an original GI part for use in an SMG.

IMHO

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#7 M1tommygun

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 10:21 AM

Thanks for the replies. Several more questions.
1. John Jr. - I checked out the link you posted. Thanks! Will the BATFE accept this form, or do I need to get an "official" form. If I can use this form, when printing it out do all the areas that request info input that are not filled out print out the command on that line? I am referring to the area that my local LEO has to fill out. I want to make sure I get every thing right the first time when I send in all the paperwork.
2. PK. - The only reason I stated a USGI part is because I heard that they are of a beter quality, and that if I alter the factory mag catch it would void the factory warranty. Is this still true? I noticed in the Numrich Gun Parts web site they offer factory mag catches. I may get one of those if they are any cheaper than USGI.
I noticed in the owners manual that what Lionhart sais is true. My M1 uses the same bolt as the 27A. It has holes in it for the bolt on the side and top. I hope David J.'s operation was not too serious, and I hope his recovery will be speedy. Again thanks.

Scott
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#8 Sgt

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 03:36 PM

m1Tommygun--
I'm looking at a form 1 instructions (2g). It says, "ATF F-1 forms may be photocopied or computer generated... as long as it contains all the required information... form may be downloaded from ATF website." All signatures must be original. You still have to use original finger print cards though.
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#9 PK.

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 07:23 AM

M1tommygun,

You may certainly choose to use a GI mag catch; they are of better quality. I was simply pointing out that the current catches do not have the problems that automatically required their replacement.

Any change you make will void the warranty, including making an SBR. I guess the question is weather you want to preserve the warranty or fix the gun. NAC mag catches may well be the older, lousy parts. I would simply modify the one in the gun now or get a replacement from Kahr or a GI part.
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#10 M1tommygun

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 10:33 AM

PK,

It did not occur to me about the warranty becoming void after a short barrel is installed rolleyes.gif . This being true, then I will just save a few dollars and modify the mag catch on the rifle. I guess this would be the easiest thing to do. Is the mag catch lever supposed to be flush with the frame, or is supposed to stick out a little? Mine was sticking out a little, but I was able to press it in towad the frame making it close to being flush. Sgt. I checked out the ATF web site and tried to order the forms, but my computer was acting screwy and I do not know if the order went thru. I will call this afternoon and order them over the phone. Thanks for the info guys.

Scott
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#11 PK.

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 03:24 PM

I assume that you are talking about the part of the catch that you push to release the magazine. Often from the factory, these stick out away form the frame further than they should. They can be bent back towards the frame. They should not rub on the frame or grip, but have a small space.
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#12 M1tommygun

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 03:58 PM

PK,

Thanks for the reply. What you said to do is what I did. It is not rubbing, but has some space between it and the frame. Some of the pictures I have seen show the lever close to the frame, and I wanted to be sure about the spacing. Do you know what material these mag catches are made of?

I went to a pawn shop this afternoon to look for any Thompson mags and found one. The pawn shop was asking $39.95 for it, but they said they could add a 25% discount. Inspecting it I noticed the retaining hole on the back of the mag had been opened up for what I assume a semi auto, and the job of it was not very good. It was jagged and kind of crooked. At a little over $32.00, was that too much money for it? I thought it was a bit pricey, so I passed on it. Thanks.

Scott


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#13 M1tommygun

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 08:30 PM

Thanks Hardrede! I was somewhat confused about all the forms on that site, so I ended up calling the ATF. They are sending me out the necessary forms tomorrow. At least I learned something about the forms. I cannot wait to get the proper short barrel on the rifle. I may not be able to afford a full-auto M1, but at least I can have a rifle that looks like one. cool.gif

Scott
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#14 NDLawyer

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 09:20 PM

M1Tommygun:

Good instinct on the pawn shop magazine. You can find GI mags for much less, check out the FAQ section pinned to the top of the board. If you want mags that are already modified to fit semi autos, ask here on the board, it seems that someone usually has one or two available.

Since your M1 is new, I would humbly suggest working any potential bugs out before you make any changes that void the warranty. This way the costs of repairs would theoretically be paid by Kahr.

Given the delay in getting BATFE forms approved, this is probably something you could have done before the paperwork arrived.

Of course, if you decided to modify the magazine catch (good description on the old board) you could modify either a GI or another Kahr or Numrich (GPC) catch and save the original in the event you had to send your M1 back for warranty work.

Congratulations and enjoy!

Dave
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#15 M1tommygun

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 09:46 PM

Thanks for the advice NDLawyer. I noticed that Numrich gun parts had XXX mags for around $18.00, and What a Country has them for around $11.00. That is a big difference in price than the pawn shop mag. I will try to get get out some time this week to pop off a few rounds to see how the rifle performs. Hopefully it won't give me any problems. As PK stated when I install a short barrel the warranty will be void, so modifying the factory mag catch will not make any difference. It will save me a few dollars in the long run, but for now I will leave it as is. I did notice on the Numrich gun part web site that they had a lot of parts for this particular rifle, and their prices were not very expensive. I noticed they had an Auto-Ordinance smg barrel for under $100.00. Will this thread into the Kahr rifles, or do I need to get a short barrel from Kahr, when the time comes? Again thanks.

Scott
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#16 Darth_Kitten

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 10:28 PM

Hi All,
I have another SBR question, I hope this is the appropriate spot. I remember reading somewhere that it would be possible to get a SBR transfered without a CLEO signature. This was of course if you registered it through your corporation. Was this an older law, or was I dreaming? BTW, The only reason that I'm asking, is that my CLEO may not sign for the SBR. I live in a larger city, and I have been told the the "Chief" may not be very cooperative....
Thanks in advance.
Mark
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#17 PK.

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 07:31 AM

New Kahr mag catches appear to be made from investment cast steel (like all Ruger guns).

The NAC barrel will work fine on your Kahr receiver.
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#18 M1tommygun

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 10:41 AM

PK, that info is good to know. Now I know where to get a barrel when the time comes. As far as the mag catch is concerned, I am glad it in not some kind of pot metal. It looks like it will hold up.

If I were going to take the Thompson, after the short barrel is installed, out of the state what do I need to do before hand. Do I need to get permission fron the ATF and/or fill out some forms for that time? Thanks.

Scott
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#19 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 10:51 AM

Darth,
Yes. You could go the corporation route. But a CLEO does not have to be your city's chief of police. It can be someone signing on behalf of your attorney general, state police chief, head of department of public safety, or Sheriff. Also, the ignorance about the CLEO sign off at local police departments is pandemic. Don't go by local scuttlebutt or take the word of the desk sergeant. Ask to see someone attached to the chief of police's office. They will either come down to the lobby, or you will be able to go to them. Once in front of this person, you can show them the Form 4 and make a more persuasive argument for the formality of having a signature that does not make the chief responsible for anything.

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#20 Tiger Bay

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 07:52 AM

M1Tommygun:

If you have any questions about the forms or state law, let me know. I'm a C3 dealer in NC. I'd be happy to help you out.

Mike
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