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Mint 1928a1 On Gunbroker


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#1 billie32

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Posted 22 January 2004 - 02:06 PM

I've been watching this guy post European deactivated Thompson's and MP-40's for awhile now (which leaves the receiver intact and completely usable), he even states that he won't cut the receiver, and he obviously intends to ship the guns to the US ($200 shipping). What's even more scary is that apparantly he's gotten at least one through to the buyer. I've sent Gunbroker numerous emails detailing how incredibly illegal it is for these guns to be in the US, however, they don't seem to care. Can anything be done about "ring-wraiths" blatant disregard for US laws and his smuggling of illegal smg's into the US? I'd hate to hear of some uninformed idividual who bought one of his guns, received it, and then received a visit from ATF. Ebay has recently been pretty good at monitoring auctions of a similar nature however, Gunbroker refuses to do anything. Just wondering if anyone else cares...
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#2 Mike45

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Posted 22 January 2004 - 06:15 PM

What more can you expect from a frog, we have saved their ass twice this century. Nuff Said. Mike
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#3 Tman

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Posted 22 January 2004 - 09:42 PM

I'll check with Customs. They might be able to flag the seller and nab it before someone gets in it too deep.
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#4 Ltcboy

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 05:49 AM

In all sincerity, why do you guys give a shi t what this guy sells? If somebody wants to but it, its their problem. Who do you think you are, Mother Theresa?

Mike
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#5 Bill in VA

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 08:11 AM

At the risk of incurring the wrath of fellow board members, I'm going to have to agree with Mike. True, some unsuspecting buyers may get their fingers burned. OTOH, there are enough unscrupulous folks out there who are likely bidding on what they fully know to be an unregistered MG. If the buyer, the seller, and the broker/auctioneer aren't going to lose sleep over, why should the rest of us? The way I see it, if what the seller is doing in his home country is legal, let him be. The buyer? IMHO, it's up to the end user/buyer to know what the laws are in his own country, and if he knows and still chooses to act accordingly, let the chips fall where they may.

Maybe there's a delicate balance to maintained...between not wanting to be self-righteous or a stool pigeon and quisling vs. being self-monitoring (collectively, as gun owners) and informing the ignorant. It's a tough call, but personally, since I'd have no dog in thiat fight, I wouldn't bother any of the three parties.
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#6 Ltcboy

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:09 AM

All you guys are saying what if.............if this happened then this will happen to us........if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle. There is an old saying--MYOB.

wink.gif
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#7 PATHFINDER

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:54 AM

If I see someone peeing in the pool I am swimming in I don't thinks it's ok just because he doing it at the other end. Part of being a responable gun owner is help to enforce those laws we always we wish they would enforce rather than passing new ones. My .02
Chris
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#8 Ron Mills

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 01:01 PM

I see everyone's point here. I've personally never found fault in helping someone out that may get into trouble AND lose a bunch of money at the same time. We know there are many watchdogs out there just waiting to take all of our guns away. The ATF doesn't take "Gee, I didn't know" as an acceptable answer. Us boys that frequent this forum by and large know the laws regarding Cl. 3, SBR, etc., and when a question comes in, we try to help. When I didn't know, I asked Roger Cox in 1973. He gave the straight answer, and I appreciated it. OK, no rebuttals on that one. We know he made a big boo-boo later on.

Oh, the "peeing in the pool" analogy is a good one! 1 point for Pathfinder! I agree with the rest of his reply as well. Many good replies have been posted on this topic. Nice going. Just my .0002 cents.
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#9 Bill in VA

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 04:21 PM

I still don't see where I have a stake in this, and with all due respect, I just can't buy your (Randall's) arguement. IIRC, wasn't it a few years ago that a shipment of full-auto AKs was smuggled into the country (and detained) but hardly a whimper was heard from the media or Congress. And the "North Hollywood Shootout"...very little hoopla was made about restricting MG ownership. The media actually ended up getting that one right, about illegally converted MGs, but there was no call from Congress or the media about outlawing "AWs" because they're "so easy to convert."

I have my own beef with the [lying liberal yellow-dog] mass media of this country, and they rarely if ever get anything gun-related right...according to them, every evil black rifle or centerfire semi-auto with a vaguely military look is an MG. Hellfire, Knob Creek is one of the oldest, biggest, and most publicized shoots of MGs in the US and yet the media is rarely ever heard to utter a word. With all the hardware in use there (and let's face it, there's a lot of pretty exotic stuff in action at KCR) where is the media howling about how dangerous these things are and about protecting us from ourselves?

My .02
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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 04:41 PM

Bill,
Those Einsteins' who robbed the North Hollywood bank somehow managed not to kill any cop or bystander with their converted AKs'. If they had, the press might have reacted differently. Instead the press concentrated on how the surviving gunman was "denied" immediate medical attention before he succumbed to his wounds. Four cops who were involved in that shoot-out committed suicide in the ensuing years. If you were to ask any reporter/journalist if machineguns were legal in the U.S., they would reply with a resounding, "Of course not." They are completely oblivious to the legality of Class III weapons. That may be a good thing.

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#11 Bill in VA

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 09:57 AM

Thanks Arthur, but for the record, I'm well aware of the the facts and pablum (and all in between) regarding the North Hollywood Shootout.

Maybe I'm worng, but it seems to me then, that the general consesus regarding anyone overseas trying to sell a US/BATF-defined MG that could possibly make their way into the US is to shut them down completely....prevent them from selling what may be a lawful item in their own country by denying them access to market venues, inform Customs/US Dept. State, and both the seller and any potential buyers. We should just stick our heads in the sand and only speak with those "in the know."

Why isn't there this sort of 2A outcry about non-C3 guns and crime among the 2A community? Let's get real for a minute here. The press, in general, has no idea about the difference betweeen an AR15 and an M16, a .22 Rohm and a .357 Python, or even the OED definition of an "arsenal." To them, all guns are evil, and what sells better than sensationalisitc stories playing on the fears and horrors of a few vocal people? Do as you please, make your judgements, but don't condemn me because I choose not to be a quisling.

Knowledge is power, and we shouldn't try hiding our lamp under the proverbial bushel, for fear that our "dirty little 2A secret" will get out to the general public. Let the bad guys get in trouble, and let's speak out publicly about those who get caught and let the general public know that those who make the news are the few bad apples and representative of the majority of law-abiding exercisers of our Second Amendment right. Why let the lying liberal media control the flow of information by keeping a low profile?
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#12 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 01:13 PM

Bill,
Of course the media holds the biggest megaphone when it comes to the gun issue. But sometimes a Sean Hannity, or an Ann Coulter, gets their views across the airwaves. The problem is that when the media goes looking for a spokesperson from the pro gun owners, they invariably come up with some yahoo dressed in camouflage, (as if Sarah Brady hand picked the guy), whose perception will distort the discussion before any ideas are exchanged.

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#13 Dave Janowski

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 04:36 PM

WHO THE HELL CARES!!!!!!!

Let the dumb bastards buy it and go to prison!


How do you know the guy selling on the other end is not a fed?
Maybe he is TRYING to set up innocent people and catching them!

Just be smart DO NOT buy it!

IMA has parts sets that are just like those guns, ANY ONE can make a LEGAL display gun like he is selling it as, and Dougs receivers are better built any how!

Dave
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#14 john

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 05:20 PM

Part of being a responsible gun owner is like anything else. You are part of a "Responsible" community of gunowners and as such are liable also for the actions of the irresponsible members.You act responsibly, try to shoot safely and responsibly and obey the laws.....all so as not to bring the wraith of the media down on our heads.
If the public doesn't like what we are up to, our hobby (our "gun community") could go away.
Everyone has to realize that we are only a couple penstrokes away from losing our toys. There are some who cry "it'll never happen". Many said the same thing about the "assault weapon" ban, and look what we are up against now.

It only takes the actions of a few stupid, irresponsible individuals to ruin this hobby we love so much.
And you have to look at the media also. Think they are on our side?? Guess again, friends! They're not referred to as the "liberal media" for 'nuthin!!!

So for those of you who are upset that this clown is sending live receivers into our country, I applaud you. I'm pissed also and someone needs to stop this fool. It's not his "community" that he will bring ruin to. it's ours, and we need to defend it.

And for those who don't care and say "let them do it and get arrested....it'll serve 'em right", think about their actions "serving us ALL right". Because that IS HOW our system works, like it or not.

If you see a "wrong" you need to act responsibly to "right" it.

Let's be a responsible community, and we will be a community for a LONNNNGGGG time!!

just my .02 worth......

john
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#15 Ltcboy

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 06:42 PM

There are too many chiefs and not enough indians here. Its amazing how people "have" to take it upon themselves to police what other people are doing, when those poeple's actions really doesnt have anything to do with you at all. You should tend to your own affairs, this goody twoshoes bullsh it will bring just the same amount of attention reporting these people as if you didnt and the got caught. Pray tell that I am driving 85 mph and pass one of you Gladys Cravitts types. You just might dial your cell phone and report me to the state police because Im driving a Porsche and if I crash while speeding, the government might place an embargo on Germany to stop importing those mean fast cars. You guys have a great hobby, you guys also have great Tommy guns, but get a life, worry about your kids and families and not what some jag off is selling on ebay because your paranoid Hillary will take your Tommy away. Your absurd for thinking that that would happen.

MIke
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#16 tws63

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 11:05 AM

ltcboy....you were speeding...........Im telling on you.

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#17 hawksnest

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 01:05 PM

ltcboy: If someone breaks into your house and steals your tommy gun collection I'll mind my own busines. tongue.gif
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#18 LIONHART

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 01:50 PM

Ltcboy, many of us chime in when we see something that can land another in Prison. Many of us try our best at times to warn fellow collectors on what is legal to own, and what is not. But some people have their head up there ASS too far, and can't see the light. You appear to be one of those. One of these days YOU will get burned! By the way, how do you like that PPSH?
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#19 SecondAmend

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 02:10 PM

Whether or not one has a "moral" duty to aid when another is in peril (be it physical, legal, or otherwise) is a question that has been argued by philosophers, legal theorists, and the like for ages.

Nice to see that a cross-section, if not all, viewpoints are expressed herein. I guess that shows that even though we share at least a common interest in the Thompson submachine gun we are really a diverse group.

In this case, last I looked the reserve had not yet been met so, as Rick Springfield said, "The point is probably moot."
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#20 Murray

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 02:26 PM

Last year we had seven hunters killed (shot) by other hunters during the roar. Now we have the anti gun and anti hunting lobby wanting to raise the age of gun ownership to 18 and restrict hunting. We as the gun owners must do everything we can do protect our interests.
We recently had the anti gun lobby wanting registration for all rifles and shotguns. After thousands of submissions from a combined hunting shooting collecting lobby the powers have started to back down.
Dont let anything damage your reputation as good honest collectors and shooters.
Thant my two pennys worth.
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