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12 Class Three Thompsons Fpr Sale.


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#1 Texas Man

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 10:22 PM

Just saw an add for J. C. Devine, Inc. Auction on Sunday, March, 7, 2004 10:00A.M. at the Wayfarer Convention Center, Bedford, N.H.
Thompsons as made by Colt, Auto Ordnance and Savage will be sold. Toll Free Number is 877-454-4867
There will be 12 Thompsons for sale, as well as other durms, clips and shot items for Thompsons.

If this will help anyone great.
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#2 full auto 45

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 10:23 PM

Isn't there a web site with all this listed, and bid info?

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#3 Texas Man

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 10:27 PM

www.jcdevine.com
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#4 Walter63a

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 04:23 AM

IMHO, if you are absolutely desperate for a TSMG and TSMG parts/ accessories, then this might be a place to start. Since this is an auction, automatically include large doses of emotion/ panic bidding, which drives up the final selling prices. Also, this auction house appears to be well run, professional, with good research and photos. What can I say? They consult Frank Iannamico and Tracie Hill! smile.gif They are also featured in and/or advertise in the Wall Street Journal and Money Magazine. Therefore, they are bringinig in a lot of deep-pocketed 'investors' and people to whom money is no object, for the whim toy of the moment. While J.C. DeVine always seems to feature nice Class III weapons and accessories, you will inevitably pay a higher price here, due to the above mentioned factors. If you doubt this, simply check-out their home page, where they list some previous auction results. For example, on that page, you will find that a nice 1921 A Colt TSMG sold in December of 2002 for $25,300. blink.gif ohmy.gif cool.gif Regards, Walter

P.S. Shop around before making the trip to Milford or Bedford, N.H. for your Thompson needs.
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#5 Sig

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 05:03 AM

I posted these results from their last auction in October 03.
I am reposting here to refresh everyone on the gavel prices and more importantly the fees involved.
BP=Buyers Premium

Walter can you direct me to the dates of the ads in WSJ and Money. Would be curious to see those.

Below prices are correct. SELLER would get the price without the BUYERS PREMIUM less 20% as a seller commission, YIKES.

1. 1921-A $26,000 + 15% BP = $29,900. Seller would get $20,800. Claimed to be 95%. J.C. made a cool $9,100!
2. 1927- $24,000 + 15% BP = $27,600. Seller would get $19,200. Claimed to be 95%. J.C. made $8,400.
3. 1921-AC $21,000 + 15% BP = $24,150. Seller would get $16,800. Claimed to be 99% of a REFINISH. J.C. made $7,350
4. M1-A1 - $16,000 + 15% BP - $18,400. Seller would get $12,800. J.C. made $5,600.
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#6 Balder

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 03:12 PM

PhilOhio,

Good one! Your post made me able to prove to my wife that it's not only me who considers gun purchases as investsments (there's no need to tell them that we'll never sell).

Balder
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#7 John Jr

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 11:37 PM

ANYONE who would buy from or sell through this obvious money grabber has to be ignorant. If you sell thru him you pay 1/2 of the guns value to him for nothing. If you are the buyer you pay 50% more than ANY gun is worth.

I pity the poor bastards that paid those prices and those who ended up with so little.

Jr

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#8 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:18 AM

John Jr,
It is the buyer who pays over market value, but once the auction house subtracts their commission, the seller winds up with the equivalent market selling price just as if they sold the guns themselves. The auction house does not get half the value of the gun, nor does a buyer pay 50% more than the gun is worth, except on some Frankenstein guns. Your hyperbole is getting ahead of your arithmatic.

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#9 John Jr

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:30 AM

I might be a bit short on the math, but on the rest I am correct.

Have a look:

1. 1921-A $26,000 + 15% BP = $29,900. Seller would get $20,800.

Say gun is worth the seller net. Seller got 69.6% of the value. Buyer paid 144% more than the sellers net. Seller got screwed and buyer got screwed.

2. 1927- $24,000 + 15% BP = $27,600. Seller would get $19,200.

Say the gun is worth the seller net. Seller got 69.5% of the value. Buyer paid 144% more than the sellers net.

3. 1921-AC $21,000 + 15% BP = $24,150. Seller would get $16,800. Claimed to be 99% of a REFINISH. J.C. made $7,350

Say the gun is worth the seller net. Seller got 69.5% of the value. Buyer paid 144% more than the sellers net.

You see yet?

Let me revise.

If you buy a Devine gun you pay 44% more than its worth
If you sell thru Devine you get less than 70% of what its worth.

Your screwed either way.

Point made. (thanks Arthur for helping me clear that one up!)

Jr


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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:15 AM

John Jr,
I know you have trouble with understanding the purpose of auction houses, and how they manage to get higher prices than an item sold through a passive source like Shotgun News, Sturmgehwer, etc. The auction house brings a concentrated audience to the sale after having published an expensive brochure that wets prospective buyers' appetites. The buyer can also inspect the gun for a decent period, without trying to arrange a look see through some squirelly private party. In the case of Devine, the buyer can pay with a credit card, not usually accepted by private parties. The figure that the auction gets are above what a private sale garners. Not to mention that most gunbrokers, who merely advertsie a gun for sale for an owner, get 20% off the selling price, and they do little, or nothing to earn it. In that case, the seller is screwed.

1921A sells for $26,000 and the auction house collects 15% above that figure from the buyer. The auction house keeps the $3900 paid by the buyer. The seller gets $26,000. The seller may also have to pay a 15% listing fee. That leaves the seller with $22,100. That is an addtional $3900 the auction house gets for a total of $7,800. How is this figure half the value of the gun? Unless a seller has a buyer lined up to pay them $26K, how are they ripped off? The $22.1K figure is fair market value for the seller. Should the bidder always bear in mind the extra 15% that will be tacked on to their bids? Of course. Everybody wins in this auction except the buyer who does not factor in the 15% when bidding.

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#11 Sig

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 07:47 AM

OK everyone let's see what we thinks those TMSG's at J.C. Devine will sell for (final gavel price PLUS 15% buyers premium), here are my guesses:

(J.C. estimate) My guess with 15% BP
A.O. 88998 1928 A1 (14k-16k) $15k
152318X 1928 AC (14k-16k) $15k
114259 M1 (10k-14k) $11k
S260251 1928 A1 (12k-15k) $15k
1513 Colt 1921A (20k-24k) $25k
16330 1928 (15k-18k) $15k
519517 M1A1 (?) $10k
NAC5 1921 (20k-25k) $24k
9006 Colt 1921AC (18k-22k) $23k
1978 Colt 1921A (20k-25k) $21k eeewwwwww
1233A 1928 (8k-10k) $9k
2101 Colt 28/21 (30k-35k) $32k
1485 Colt 28/21 (25k-30k) $29k
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#12 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 11:00 AM

Sig,
NAC 5 $24K?....If the buyers have done 5 minutes of research, then maybe $12K

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#13 Sig

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 11:05 AM

Arthur
Not saying I would pay that!

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#14 hawksnest

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 05:08 PM

While I agree with the comments here are my guestimates: ao88998 28A1=15K: 152318X 28AC=15K: 114259 M1 = 14K: S260251 28A1 = 18K: 1513 21 = 25K: S16330 28 = 20K: 51957 M1A1 = 14K: NAC 5 21 = 15K: 9006 21 = 24K: 1978 21A = 28K: 2101 21/28 = 21K: 1485 21/28 = 21K. Lets see how close we came after March 7.
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#15 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 09:25 PM

Looks like someone at JC Devine is reading Machinegunbooks.com. They have revised their estimate on the NAC5 TSMG from their original $20K to $25K to the more reasonable, (at least by Devine standards), $14K to $18K. Only the price realized at auction's conclusion will prove vindication or not.
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#16 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 09:11 PM

Earlier in this post I predicted that the NAC gun would go for maybe $12K. RS bought it for $11.5K. Some of you got carried away with the last Devine auction and predicted $15K to $24K. As for the Nickel gun, some predicted from $21K to $28K!. RS paid $17,250. The Colt 1921A was thought to bring $25K. RS paid $19,550. If that gun came with a couple of Colt numbered drums, then $25k would be more likely. These seemingly low prices are not indicative of some downward spiral for Thompson's, but rather just the true value of these particular guns. They were neither a bargain, nor a ripoff.
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