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#1 engine31

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 11:54 PM

I have a nice Thompson m1928 or m1921 complete frame. I have not taken it apart and do not plan on taking it apart unless a need arises during the creation of a sharp dummy gun. Everthing seems to function well and the finish is a very nice blueing, possibly re-blued. The only identifying marks are in the area where the removable stock attaches. NO. 4023 is stamped here. Would this low number make this piece a Colt? I plan on purchasing a Richardson reciever once I decide which markings to go with. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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#2 John Jr

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 11:56 PM

Take some pictures. Did you get this lower from Ebay?

Jr
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#3 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:00 AM

Yes i got it on ebay about a year ago. Pictures are going to take awhile as I can not find my camera. It appears that the selecter paddles are smooth and have a military finish grey. The rest of the piece is blued with minor wear where the reciever slides into place. Thanks
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#4 John Jr

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:15 AM

I remember seeing those parts on Ebay. Was there not a whole bunch of Colt parts from the same seller? The safety and rocker pivot seem to be from a military gun, which would indicate replacement parts from after the colt era. Still sounds like a nice piece. If I remember correctly the same seller had a barrel, wood, internals from the upper, etc... I also remember thinking that this seller was a corrupt ATF agent who stripped a confiscated gun and sold the parts. You are legal in ownership of this lower, and I am a cynical person. Buy a Richardson upper and have him stamp it for you. What a great dummy piece you would have then!!! Send him the lower too, so he can match it all up.

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#5 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:21 AM

That particular ebay deal last year did not include any Colt frame, just the internals, barrel, front sight, wood, and receiver parts.
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#6 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 12:42 AM

I dont know about the seller or if he had any other parts. I would like to get a pair of Colt "paddles" if anyone knows where to find them. Would you say this lower is a Colt due to the low serial?
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#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:18 AM

Are the internals nickel? How is the grip shaped?
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#8 Murray

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:29 AM

Colt 1927AC serial number 4023 was assigned to San Quentin Prison and there is no information on it's current whereabouts. The description of the serial number configuration certainly makes it look like a Colt made gun.
I would, as John JR suggests, buy a receiver and barrel upper assembly complete with the cutts compensator from Doug Richardson and have Doug engrave it as a 1927AC complete with matching serial numbers. He may also be able to help you with the correct paddlel type selector levers.
You would then have a great looking gun!!

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#9 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:57 AM

The internals do appear to be brighter than the frame and of a shade consistent with nickel. Thanks Murray for the serial info. Can Doug fix me up with barrel and Cutts compensator? Thanks. Paul
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#10 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:00 AM

The grip is more contoured and finer than the one on another "28" display gun that I have. The other lower has a serial of 452679. Any info on that one? Paul
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#11 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:08 AM

Murray, my lower has a full auto select paddle so would'nt that mean it could not be a 27AC? I thought the 27AC was a semi-auto only. Thanks. Paul
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#12 Murray

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:11 AM

Paul
Doug makes really great dummy receivers, barrels, compensators, some colt pattern wood, all to a really great quality and although he recently got behind with his work due to totally failed eyesight cool.gif but he his now on the road to recovery and manufacturing again. rolleyes.gif He does have a waiting list but his work is worth waiting for. He is also trying to build a home in Belize which occupies a lot of his time.
He posts on this forum and he had a post a few days ago about Thompson drawings so go back a few posts and find him and e-mail him via the forum and ask him to send you his catalouge ($3 plus postage) which is great.
.His address is Douglas W Richardson, 2100 McReynolds Road, Malibu CA 90265
You should get a lot of help with you projet from this forum. There a lot of really great guys on it and they have a huge amount of knowledge.
Regards : biggrin.gif :
Murray

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#13 Murray

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:21 AM

Paul,
Gordon Herigstad's book, "The Colt Thompson serial numbers lists Colt serial number 4023 as a 1927AC while Tracie Hills book just lists it as San Quentin prison so I really dont know. Most of the serial number around that number are listed as 1928's .
Some of the others on the forum may be able to assit you far better that me.
Regards
Murray
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#14 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:21 AM

Thanks Murray, what about the 27AC being semi auto? My lower has full auto and single positions.
I already have a catalog from doug but I have to find it again. The price for the reciever with the engraving costs around $800! I'm going to have more money in this "dummy" gun than any of my real ones!
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#15 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 02:23 AM

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll get it figured out one way or another.
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#16 gijive

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 07:16 AM

Engine31,

Are there any letter code marks visible at all in the where the internal parts fit or any markings under the rear grip? The serial number is certainly in the right range for a Colt gun. I remember seeing it on Ebay also and it was hard to tell from the photos the seller provided whether it was a Colt frame or not. I seem to remembr though that the serial number on the frame was stamped in the opposite direction of that of the Colt made guns. I could be mistaken, however, but pictures of the frame would certainly help us assist you with it's origin.

Is the Full Auto marking on one line or two and is there a period after the AUTO abbreviation?
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#17 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:13 PM

Engine,
If it is a Colt with serial number 4023, then it does have to be a 1927 model. It would still have the full auto/single pivot, but the engraved full auto letters would have been ground off and a rectangular shaped box would be left there. If somewhere along the line San Quninton, or some other entity, coverted it back to full auto, they most likely would have restamped in larger than original size letters the word "AUTO". The cops would then replace the 1921 parts with 1928A1 parts to make it fire full auto again. The Colt 1927 frame I am aware of was selling for $2,600, but it was still a perfect example maintaining the Colt semi auto parts, no full auto military ones.

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#18 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:17 PM

Thanks gijive. Full Auto is on one line and there is a period at the end of Auto. No markings under the rear grip and I can not see any markings where the internals are. If you lay the piece on its left side with the grip pointing towars you, the serial reads from left to right. NO. 4023. As soon as I find my camera I will post images. Thanks for your help. Paul
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#19 engine31

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:22 PM

Thanks Arthur. There is no evidence of grinding or restamping. "Full Auto." appears very clean and the same size as "Single". The serial number also appears very clean with no evidence of tampering. It looks as though I am going to have to go buy another camera and get images posted of this thing. I sure appreciate all the help. Paul
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#20 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:26 PM

Engine,
If the "FULL AUTO" is on one line, and not as
FULL
AUTO
and if there is a period after the NO (as in NO.), then it doesn't seem to be a Colt. It may be an AO frame. Are both the "N" and the "O" caps?.

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