16 replies to this topic

[LIONHART]

I received an email today from Kahr in reference to adapting a Detachable Stock to their line of '27A1 Guns. Here is their responce.

When we purchased the AutoOrdnance line in 1999, the guns were not being made with a detachable buttstock, we have continued to make the gun the same way. At the present time there are no plans to make a detachable buttstock for the 1927.

Sincerely,
Faye M.Newcomb

[Norm]

Lionhart,

I hope you didn't expect Kahr comprimise their inability to listen to customers.

Maybe you (and I) should write them another letter. We could tell them "When Kahr purchased AO of WH in 1999, the guns actually functioned. Why did they change that?"

Norm

[LIONHART]

Norm, since Kahr had introduced SB Rifles, I wanted to know if they had any intentions of selling their guns with the proper Detachable Stock. It doesn't appear that they will. Indeed, from what I have read here, some of their Guns are problem proned. However, at least Kahr's Customer Service is finally answering emails. I guess that's a start in the right direction. Say, a few years ago I was reading through a Gun Magazine, and there was a new Semi-Auto Thompson Look-A-Like Carbine that was shown at the Shot Show. I can't remember who the manufacture was, nor was it ever introduced onto the market place. Does anybody else have any information about this? Strange.

[Norm]

Lionhart,

It just occured to me that they may not want to make a detachable stock for the 27A1. Maybe it is because it could fit on a 27A5 pistol with no modifications. That might get them into some hot water down the road, seeing as how they are the manufacturer.

I hope their customer service has gotten better.

Norm

[LIONHART]

Norm, I don't think that is the case. Look at the SW5 Line from Special Weapons. Even their MP5K/SP89 Pistol Copy can accept Stocks from their Rifle line. Also, a Detachable Stock won't fit an A5 without the proper grooves on the side for the Stock Slide.

Edited by LIONHART, 28 January 2004 - 01:24 PM.

[Grey Crow]

Norm,

The liability of attaching a removable stock on the A5 would be about the same as a person swapping barrels from 16" to 10". I don't think it would fall back on Kahr. It is the intent of the owner.

I looked into making stocks for handguns, a big "NO" on the ATF side. But you can legally make a stock for a handgun so long as it is not attached directly to the gun. ( the pistol just sits on the stock )

[Zamm]

Gary,
I think I read somewhere that Mauser broomhandles were now legal with buttstocks... Does this fall under some kind of collector/antique thing?

As for car, yes, they probably have no intention on doing anything different, as long as folks continue to purchase the items.
Best Zamm

[LIONHART]

From my understanding, one can turn a Pistol into a Rifle. (With Stock And A 16" Barrel, but must be at least 26.5" in overall length without Stock, CHECK local laws though) But one cannot turn a Rifle into a Pistol.

[catnipman]

Norm, I bought three new 1927A1's directly from AOWH in 1994, and not one of them worked out of the box.

[LIONHART]

I have to honestly say that I've never had any problems with either maker, other than cosmetics.

[Grey Crow]

Yes, with the Mauser under a C&A it is legal.

I was seeking to make a stock for all makes of handguns that was attachable.

The ATF won't allow a handgun to be changed back and forth into a rifle/handgun... Throw in the barrel length, even my Dan Wesson with a 10" barrel would need to be classified as a SBR.

As to function AO - Kahr I've herd that both were plagued with feed problems. Those that purchased both new and had none are lucky.
From others on this board it's been stated that the Kahrs are finished a little better so far as aesthetics.

I have a Kahr and with minor tweaking it works fine. I picked up a 28 stock from Gun Parts, and swapped out the alloy slide with one made of steel from TommyGunner.com. I might add that the fit of the steel slide is far better. Plus the metal to wood fit was like he had my stock in hand. Great job Damon!

I've purchased several Colt pistols over the years that did not function
out of the box, so far as feeding reliably. Again minor tweaking and they worked great.

[Fencer]

But, can you install a M1A1 Carbine stock reproduction (folding) on a M1 Carbine?

Always wondered about that.

[Grey Crow]

Phil,

Good point, well taken, I had forgotten the Contender.

It was the barrel length that was the stickler.

It was legal though to produce a stock where the gun simply rested on the wood and was held in place with the hand.
The catch there on production level is to make a stock that would fit all styles of frames, revolver & pistol.

Fencer,

The use of a collapsible or folding stock on the M1A1 would be a violation because of the pistol grip, and removable magazine. That would place the gun into the assault weapon category, unless you were to make the magazine un-removable and load through the ejection port. I would think that to do all of that would be treading very close to the line.

Using the removable 28 stock and slide is not listed. (at least yet!)

[Fencer]

Grey Crow,

By M1A1 you do mean a WWII C+R M1 Carbine, right? I was not talking about the Semi-auto
M14 produced by Springfield Armory.

Thanks.

[Grey Crow]

Fencer,

I was referring to the Thompson M1A1.

The cliassifcation for an assult rifle. 9/13/1994

According to the semiautomatic assult weapon definition as found in 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (30) ( B )

A semiautomatic rifle that has the ability to accept detachable magazines and has at lease two (2) of the following features.

( i ) a folding or telescoping stock;
( ii ) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
( iii ) a bayonet mount;
( iv ) a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accomondate a flash suppressor; and
( v ) a grenade launcher

However there are no laws to date stating that a removable stock like the 28 cannot be used on the semi's like the Kahr and AO 27's...

Lionhart included this information when he un-veiled "Project X".

Then under another law the restriction of folding stocks.

For pre-ban rifles only. It is illegal to install a folding stock on a rifle manufactured after 9/13/1994.

Argh, there are far to many laws!

Edited by Grey Crow, 30 January 2004 - 02:30 PM.

[Fencer]

Thanks Man, I was just about to start on a rant of "They why do they sell the ^%#$ things."

Bought one a couple years ago, and have been afraid to actually install it since I saw an article in
SGN about typical Gun Law violations.

Thanks again.

[Grey Crow]

Had to edit my fist responce it seems that they "do" still sell the folding stocks at places like Butler Creek.

For pre-ban rifles only. It is illegal to install a folding stock on a rifle manufactured after 9/13/1994.

Removable stocks are still legal on the semi Thompsons as well as FA's.
For now any way!

It's great that Kahr is finally responding to questions about their product

Now if they would only take a few of their guns out and shoot them, do a little home work, and fix the problems, they would have a product worth the asking price.

Yes, I own a Kahr 27A1, and it did not function without more work. But I do not regret the purchase.