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Hyman S. Lebman, Gunsmith To The Outlaws


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#21 OCM

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:26 AM

A corndog, haaaaaaaaaaaaaa, yep. Lebman was selling the Colt Minis at the Iowa State Fair, two for a buck !
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#22 vytautus

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

Here is a video of a russian Stechkin in action. I would consider this the culmination of Lebmans idea.


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#23 OCM

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:03 PM

Could very well be. Nice select fire too.
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#24 OCM

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:14 PM

Some friends of mine were just in Tucson, and being retired cops got to look at the Dillinger weapons recovered, up and personal.
Photos just coming in. Here is the Lebman 1907 Winchester 351 converted to FA. The gun in 1934 and today ( left side in photo)
 
Will post Thompson photos on main page next week.

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Edited by OCM, 11 October 2015 - 08:49 AM.

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#25 Big Al

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:45 PM

I read somewhere that one of Pretty Boy Floyd's 1911s, that was recovered from his body when he was shot, was a Lebman conversion, but without a foregrip. It could be the upper one with the funny hammer spur in the photo. The passage said it had some welding done to it on the safety and (I think) the hammer.

Attached File  Pretty Boy Floyd's Pistols.jpg   33.79K   62 downloads


Edited by Big Al, 17 May 2014 - 09:45 PM.

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#26 OCM

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:41 AM

Baby Face Nelson was a main contact with Lebman, out of San Antonio. They we have Van Meter, Bentz and of course Dillinger. Don't know about Floyd, maybe Helmer will know ? Pierpont & Nelson pretty much hated each other so probably no connection there.

Litte bit of a mystery, at least to me, when & where Dillinger picked up this Winchester 351 conversion, and Thompson # 7731. We did know he stopped in Fort Worth, and bought some weaponry at Wolf & Klar, on his way to Tucson- Did he meet up with Lebman on the way ?  


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#27 jim c 351

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:27 AM

Sandy,
Was the 07 mentioned above full auto only or did it have a selector for semi??
Jim C
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#28 OCM

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:11 PM

Jim-

Don't know. They sent me a lot of photos of the guns , I can check see if anything might suggest select fire on the receiver- My guess is full auto only.

Apparently all the weapons are still functional, which was confusing as I thought they had been deactivated, maybe by the FBI. Double confusing, how do you legally poses two stolen Thompson and a converted rifle to full auto. Is this a turn the other FBI cheek thing ? I have no idea.

There was no field stripping or anything, these were brought out of display so my friends could handle them, pictures etc.

Apparently, the officer in charge said they had taken all the weapons out like 8-10 years ago and fired them.     


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#29 OCM

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:31 PM

Jim,

I could see nothing on the gun to indicate a select fire " switch" . Other side has Tucson PD etched by hand, on it. Almost like using a nail ! Gun is pretty beat up- Mfg. date about 1910, # 21218. Lebman gun is #46051, 1933.Tucson also had burned Tucson PD on the wood stock at some point.   

Here also is the other 351 recovered, not a Lebman gun, think this one was taken out of the Peru PD as I remember, along with the 21 AC # 5878 .

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#30 jl7422

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:52 PM

Thanks for sharing the photos-- I have one of the reproduction '07 Lebmans and really enjoy shooting it. Now if only I could find a transferrable 07!


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#31 OCM

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:21 PM

I also have one, not fired it yet- Harder then hell to charge the thing, not like my older one- Transferable one- Just work the S pin, write us from jail. HMMMM, Lebman never did tho, jail time.......  

 

Jim-

 

Talked to Sheriff Hudson today, # 21218, the standard 07, is still in the semi-auto configuration. The Lebman one, # 46051 is FA. 100% now, not select fire- this came from the Tucson PD historian. Imagine running 10 rounds through a 351, FA..... wow nelly-      


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#32 Motorcar

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 01:56 PM

Baby Face Nelson was a main contact with Lebman, out of San Antonio. They we have Van Meter, Bentz and of course Dillinger. Don't know about Floyd

 

If my memory serves, Paris Hatters is only a few blocks away from Lebman's store front and has been in business since 1917. On one of the fitting booths there is a sign that says Pretty Boy Floyd stood here on xxxx date. It's been a couple of years since I was in there but that is the name I remember. It's not beyond possibilty that he may have stopped in Lebman's at the same time he was being fitted for a new fedora several streets away. I will have to look again next time I'm in there.


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#33 OCM

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 03:41 PM

Guys, you should see this !  I've met a guy on the gangster side of the forum, that made a replica of the HS Lebman Colt mini submachine gun, that is registered as an AOW, fully legal. Made out of a Colt 1911 Commercial automatic. Not FA, still semi auto.
This is as close to the real deal as I've seen. Nelson, Dillinger, Van Meter & Lebman would all be proud-
 
Don't ask, I've got dibs.
 
 
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Edited by OCM, 11 October 2015 - 08:49 AM.

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#34 kwill

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:37 PM

A few years back-maybe 10-I started some research on Lebman with the idea of writing a book, or at least a substantive article.  I ran into mostly dead ends but for some of the same information shared in this thread.  However I did have a fascinating conversation with Marvin Lebman (Hyman's son).  He told me some fascinating stories about that era.  He did a lot of the gunsmithing while his dad worked primarily on saddles and tack.  They had a sand-filled 55 gallon drum in the basement pictured in that newspaper article, which they used for test firing guns.  


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#35 OCM

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 08:38 AM

Kwill,
Anything you would care to put on here , about your Lebman experience, would be appreciated.
I've read the article about the guy, that got to see the old basement gun shop and all, maybe there was a video too, can't remember. Bill Helmer knew him in College and I think Marvin.
Was going to write a book also but there wasn't enough stuff on the subject. Larry Wack's FBI site has some nice info on him ( Dusty roads....) . Helmer had a pair of boots made by him, I had a saddle made by him.
Lot of photos of the guns he made and ones that some of us made like Lebman weapons here on the site. Mine is a dummy, another one fires semi auto. Take a look, if you haven't already-
 
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Edited by OCM, 11 October 2015 - 08:50 AM.

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#36 full auto 45

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:57 PM

Thanks for sharing the photos-- I have one of the reproduction '07 Lebmans and really enjoy shooting it. Now if only I could find a transferrable 07!

 

I have a couple of 07's. Only shot one once. Very accurate. Very heavy guns also. Thought of making one into a "Dillinger gun" for the looks.


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#37 OCM

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:38 AM

Mike-

The guys that made mine were, at one time, selling the parts for a conversion. The front grip is your standard 28 Thompson remake that you can buy for like 25 bucks. The metal forearm is the key. They also had the comps for sale too. Bear arms or something out of Utah as I remember. Maybe Idaho.


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#38 levallois

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 01:26 PM

I got interested in Hyman Lebman and the .351 Winchesters he modified after the Public Enemies movie in 2009.  I was the one who initially sent all the photos and info I could find to the gunsmith in Idaho and he made me the first (and I thought only) replica.  He then decided to make other replicas after that.  Glad to hear others have them as well.  I like mine as a bit of reproduced history but find it less fun to shoot semi-auto than my stock 1907.  I agree that the compensator, Thompson forearm, and naturally significant weight of the rifle would have worked better with a full auto version.  I do have 6 of the factory 10-round mags and about 400 rounds of ammo and take the rifles out on occasion for a work out.  It's cool to find others interested in Lebman and his inventions/modifications.


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#39 levallois

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 01:16 PM

Has anyone ever seen a 15 or 20 round magazine from the 1930s era? I've got 8 of the ten rounders and have been looking for 6 years and I've never even heard of one for sale or displayed. Did your friends who visited the Tucson PD mention any of the 15-20 round mags? Thanks!
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#40 OCM

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 02:25 PM

I have not- Winchester only offered 5 or 10 shot magazines for the 07 351 ( Henwood ) . The ones in Tucson ( now) are 5 shot magazines

The old photos of the Lebman conversion, at the arres,t show one with magazine removed, same 07 that Tucson has now. It may be that it was a 10 round magazine not installed and set aside as some/most the Thompsons were without the magazines except the Mackley Racine Thompson (# 3363).

At some point, I think the Lebman front grip went missing too. I've seen older photos of it missing . Looks like a repo to me.  

 

The Winchesters were taken out of the display cases and directly inspected by my friends. Photos were taken at that point. 

 

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