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Original Fbi/police Cases


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#1 Sig

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 06:45 AM

I have read in Roger Cox's book that 1 case was sold for every 30 TMSG's.
Cases started being sold in the 30's or thereabouts.

Not sure where to start but with an assumption that 1/2 of the inventory of Colt TMSG's had been sold by 1930 leaving 7,500.
Would it be safe to assume there are around 7,500/30 = 250 FBI/Police Cases?

Now if that is a close assumption I believe the population of known Colt Thompsons existing today is 2,500 or less, am I close?
If the above are close then 1 in 10 Colt TMSG's have an original case available, if no cases were destroyed which I rather doubt so the actual should be less than that.

Another question is the mix of the population of FBI/Police cases.
Is the mix 50/50 FBI to Police? Any ideas?
Seems to me Police cases are rarer, based on my short TCA show tour last year which I remember few Police versions and more FBI versions.
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#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 11:09 AM

Sig,
Since the FBI destroyed most of their cases along with a great percentage of their Colt Thompson's, the real deal FBI case is way rarer than the police case. The majority of cases seen on the market today, most being advertised as 1930's originals, were made in the 1960's/1970's anyway. Since many police cases were home made by individual departments, and not the three or four manufacturers, it stands to reason to see more variety of PD cases. But the number of transferable Colt TSMG's in the U.S. is more like 1800.

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#3 Chopper28

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 11:39 AM

Arthur, how did you arrive at the 1800 figure for the number of registered Colt Thompson's?
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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 12:02 PM

Chopper,
I didn't. Helmer, Richardson, Herigstad and Cox agreed on the less than 2000 figure from their own research.

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#5 1921A

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 02:37 PM


Test

Edited by 1921A, 28 April 2022 - 09:19 AM.

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#6 Mark Layton

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 04:06 PM

My case has a long-grained artificial leather skin, three latches along the front, the middle one being lockable, three hinges on hte back, a latch on each end, metal corner protectors, and a rich royal purple interior. The large latches on the ends read, "Eagle Lock Company, Terryville, Conn USA. The carry handle is leather. What kind of case might this one be?
Thanks, Mark
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#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 04:13 PM

Greg,
Undoubtedly there were people like you making copies of original cases 40 and 50 years ago. This is why it is somewhat unnerving to pony up $1500 to $2500 for cases advertised as originals. The sellers should also be limited in their claims about the originality of their case(s) true manufacturing dates since the use of period hardware is still availble today. Authenticating these pieces of luggage is haphazzard at best since there are no hard and fast rules to abide by. Other than a Sweatnam sticker (not exactly an integral piece of the case) to help ensure authenticity. Unless these cases were inherited directly from a Department of Justice, or PD, 40 years ago, it is anyone's guess as to their genuiness.

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#8 Sig

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 04:52 PM

Mark
Yours sounds like a police case with the latches on the side.
The key tell tale that it is a police case is if the 4 XX mags are on the left side and the L drum on the right as you look at the open case.

Arthur and Greg
Your information is appreciated.
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#9 Mark Layton

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Posted 15 February 2004 - 08:28 PM

On my case, the mags are on the left and the drum on the right , as you said. So, my case is a PD case.

Thanks for the help on that! Mark
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#10 colt21a

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 12:30 AM

terry william's made replica's, so did roger small of tn.and a few others over the past 25 year's.so unless you have the real proof,and i know a bunch of cases that had been original from a az.p.d.and a new mexico p.d.that had been redone,so would not that be original just restored.

also ran across a old dude in around 1990 91 at the o.g.c.a.show who's son was in the f.b.i told me the tale of how his son picked a ton of stuff out of g.s.a.trash in the 70's and 80's..............i bought three c-drums from the guy and a few L drums and stick mag's..he said whatever cases he sold had been the "real deal"f.b.i.style........... and in good to exc.cond.and the metal spare parts kits had been ruined and alot were empty of part's....and rusted or dinged and dented.............

i took this as gospel from the guy...............since i had never seen so much on one's guy table,i just about bought him out that morning of his whole table,he would remember me since i laid 5k on him at the opening of the show..............

and his two table end neighbor's just about dropped when they saw that much cash for what they called......
"some old tommygun stuff"

i have had just about all the cases myself,including the coveted "chicago police case"pictured in cox's book......just remember they also duplicated the sweatnam label's also,

there is nothing wrong with a redone case.or a replica for that matter..........as everybody cannot afford the "real deal"if one becomes available for sale...........just like the metal spare parts kit......................

have fun with the stuff guy's...............yes there are a few of us out there still looking and willing to help you.........just honest and quick replie's.............take care ,ron colt/21a
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#11 1921A

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 06:10 PM

Test

Edited by 1921A, 28 April 2022 - 09:21 AM.

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#12 Chip

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 07:57 PM

Greg:

I am looking for a replica case for a 1928, sound like you make them. Do you have a website or could you post some information on them?
thanks,
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#13 Jay Baker

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 06:52 AM

Chip, he makes the best. Got one for Christmas from my wife after a little sweet talkin'. You will be pleased.
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#14 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE
I disagree with the notion that there are a lot of 40 to 50 year old fake/replica hard cases out there. A Thompson case by any maker, manufactured at any time from the 1920's through the 1950's and sold to law enforcement, is of historical interest and therefore original and collectable, in my opinion. They’re also rare as hell! Prewar cases are not at all difficult to identify if you know what to look for.


The pre WWII cases would be the only type with a legitimate connection to the Colt Thompson and Auto-Ord. Those cases made by indistinguishable makers, who were enaged by some PD to outfit one of their TSMG's in the 50's, would not be any more collectable than those made for a PD, or anyone else, in the 60's, 70's or today. Yes, these original 1930 cases have not survived in abundant numbers. This is why so many seen on the market today are not the real McCoy.
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#15 Ron A

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 01:12 PM

Did Sweatnam make both FBI and police cases?
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#16 1921A

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 09:38 PM

Test

Edited by 1921A, 28 April 2022 - 09:20 AM.

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