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#1 Jay Baker

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 07:04 PM

Saw this at the last gun show attended. Guy had a lot of stuff but what really grabbed my attention was a stock and verticle grip from a 21/28. The wood was rather light in color and had unusual swivels on both pieces. The anchor was prominent in the area one would expect it to be. I don't have a Colt or a lend-lease Thompson, but I was really intrigued by this set. How could I determine its authenticity and does anyone have any idea what they would be worth?
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#2 1921A

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 07:33 PM

Hi Jay:

The blond or light wood is not uncommon. If the stock had the anchor marking and the the slide lock was nickel it was probably original Colt. The vertical would not have any marks if it's Colt wood. British sling swivels are normally on top of the butt and and on the right side of the verticle. Colt wood with hardware is expensive these days. I just saw a set a week ago at a collectors show in Orlando. The guy was asking $900 for the butt and $350 for the verticle. It ain't worth it!

Greg Fox
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#3 1921A

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 07:45 PM

Jay:

Almost forgot to mention - if the butt stock is Colt it would have a serial number stamped on the underside of the butt plate and on the wood. The number would probably be under 15, 040 but could be slightly higher and still be Colt. I have a Colt that has 15041 stamped on the stock and butt plate.

Greg Fox
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#4 Hurridale

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 09:08 PM

QUOTE (1921A @ Feb 16 2004, 07:33 PM)
  British sling swivels are normally on top of the butt and and on the right side of the verticle. 

My Savage Lend-Lease gun has the front swivel on the LEFT of the vertical grip.

DC
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#5 rkr

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 10:36 PM

Jay, I have looked at this very set at several guns shows in Florida the past 2 years. I posted a thread on it here and the consensus was it probably is a fake. The wood may be real but the swivels are unlike anything I could find the British ever made. Guy wanted $900 as I recall and would not take any less. I saw him again in Janurary at the Lakeland Florida show and he still had the set. I reminded him how long he had the set and he still would not move off the price. Funny we areall looking at the same set. Rob
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#6 Jay Baker

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 06:46 AM

Rob, you are right about this set. The guy was from Florida. It was the swivels that really caught my attention as I had never seen anything like them before. Looks like my gut instinct was right about this one, but you gotta ask or risk missing an opportunity. And thanks for the tips, Greg.

DC, I can't for the life of me remember the position of those swivels. Thanks again, everyone.
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#7 rkr

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:42 AM

They were on the side left I think and rotated 180 degrees up and down and 360 degrees around. They were IMHO not British made
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#8 TAB

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 12:00 PM

The only swivel I know that would rotate was that for the sling, just forward of the magazine on a No4 (T). Parker Hale also produced a version, later, taller, so as not to foul on the magazine, but in either case the swivel was on the main guard screw and not suitable for a Thompson. Laidler showed examples of British wood, standard No4 swivels in his photos. Cheaper than Thompson parts, hence instructions to use smle buttplates for repairs as well on the Thompson and Pattern 14.
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#9 1921A

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 06:00 PM

Jay:

It sounds like the Florida wood is well known. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time but the description of the swivels dosen't sound like original stuff. The lend lease guns had all sorts of junk attached. I have one Colt stock from a 28N that I cut that has a weird round ring type swivel. The gun had the normal 28N horizontal forend with the offset Enfield swivel. The rear swivel is unlike anthing I've ever seen but is perfectly inletted and royal blue. I'll try to post a picture of it when I have time. Most of the "British" guns I've seen have the front Enfield type swivel on the left side but I'm sure some were probably put on the right. Ask Terry Williams - he had several over the years.

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#10 21 smoker

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 08:35 PM

rkr,..funny thing ...I saw that same piece at the Lakeland show...$900...been that price for a few shows if I recall... thought it`s been way over priced for a long time...my first impression was that it`s a fake...still think so...the seller is always in the same spot with the wood set..sort of a shrine or something...strange show to be selling NFA parts because the sponsering club is very NFA unfreindly...they make CIII dealers cover up their MGs or leave...but take their rent money anyway...used to be a much better place to go..not anymore..just my .02.out
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#11 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 12:51 AM

Oh man, don't get me started on the Lakeland Rfle and Pistol Club show. mad.gif They wouldn't let me take a Thompson in there to show a dealer friend a year and a half ago. I spoke with Ron (from the club) about it as I had rented tables from them there in the recent past. He said they don't allow machine guns at the range, so they don't allow them at the show. I told him I could understand range restrictions (for certain ranges), but they weren't being shot at the show. He then said that they had a negative image. I told him that every gun in the show had a negative image. He then said that the government could be restrictive. I told him that it wasn't the government being restrictive, that it was the club. Further they should not discriminate against certain classes of guns as it made them no better than the gun banners. He had no response besides "sorry, those are the club rules." I haven't been back since. And won't until they relent. Thing that really pisses me off is they had the NRA there doing a membership drive. Over the loudspeaker, they said that we had to look out for each other's gun rights or we would lose them. blink.gif I've thought about organizing a boycott and protest of the show, but it would not get much support (as few care about machine gun owners rights - including the NRA), and I would be viewed as anti gun. Screw 'em mad.gif
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#12 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 11:51 AM

W&F,
Your logical arguments naturally fell on deaf ears. The NRA couldn't care less about NFA owners. I'd love to see Wayne Lapierre explain his rebuff of NRA owners, but considering his less than stellar performance dealing with 2nd Amendment issues on handguns, rifles, and shotguns, it is probably best he remains mute on Class III weapons.

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#13 SecondAmend

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 12:05 PM

Ah, come on, Arthur, Wayne's not too bad for him being a lawyer and all.
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#14 21 smoker

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 07:33 PM

1921A,Waffen,..et al,
Come on over to my club,,Hernando Sportsmans club and bring your Machine Guns...anytime!...I shoot alot and often...open every day but Monday...BIG SHOOT..Feb.29..200+ shooters...600+ spectators...lotsa cars. The club is located off of US 19 between Weeki Wachi Springs and Homosassa Springs...easy to find...lead starts flying at 9:15am..come early,shoot often! I hope to meet up with a bunch of you guys.KEEPEM`SMOKIN`,out wink.gif
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#15 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 09:21 PM

I like the Hernando shoot. I should be there barring any unforeseen events. My cheap ass will even pay $20 to shoot this time. Bringing a Thompson, an MP40, and M16/M203 and maybe something else. Can't wait to see Alan's 20mm Oerlikon. tongue.gif


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