To Build A Better Mousetrap
Posted 22 February 2004 - 07:27 PM
Just finished up with the first run of Milled Buttstock adaptors for semiautomatic 1927's. Got tired of the stamped numrich design and since we are in the process of tooling up for frames...we decided to sidetrack just to make these.
The numrich design had some shortcomings. First it was stamped. Then it was bent! The manufacture was very sloppy and I have not seen one that did not need fitting into the slide. Also only two screws were used for mounting. The Numrich adaptor is not suitable for use in contouring a semiauto frame to 28 specs in regard to the slide engagement area.
Our new adaptors are milled...not stamped or bent. The machining is beautifull. We followed military blueprints and designed the important areas to spec. We made the mount better by moving up to 4 screws and the adaptor is suitable for use in contouring. The frame does not have to be milled back to accept our adaptor because, while our adaptor is long enough for contouring...we put a scribe line to cut along if anyone wanted to instal the adaptor like the Numrich model.
Here is a shot of the adaptors: (top one cut on scribe line for non contour mount)
And here is a shot of a non contour installation.
More information is available on my website. You can go directly to the adaptor page by Clicking Here.
I appreciate any feedback anyone may have.
Posted 22 February 2004 - 07:48 PM
Posted 22 February 2004 - 11:50 PM
Posted 23 February 2004 - 03:19 PM
Edited by LIONHART, 23 February 2004 - 04:28 PM.
Posted 23 February 2004 - 05:29 PM
How does this work? Does it screw right into existing holes in the frame? (I doubt this)
Why is there a longer version?
Sorry, but I am just not getting how this works.
Posted 23 February 2004 - 06:17 PM
Posted 24 February 2004 - 01:02 PM
Posted 24 February 2004 - 07:45 PM
Posted 26 February 2004 - 11:29 AM
Dan, Mike...thanks! Have a little patience and all will be revealed on the
Devlin, Phil...Agreed. They will now come with allen screws. Thanks for the imput!
Walter...Thanks for the boost. I try not to let things discourage me. To build my own tsmg...sounds like heaven. I hope someday we can all enjoy our constitutional liberty's as well. We all must keep rattling the cage...now more than ever.
Arthur...not sure I follow your thinking.
"It would seem that one would either go the complete route of replacing the stock WH frame for a completely modified full auto type frame, thereby eliminating the need for the plate, or opt for the quick and easy install of the WH type plate."
I am with you on the modified 28 frame for this is the ultimate. The only part I do not like is to see vintage frames get cut up. We made the longer version in response to a high amount of contour jobs we get. We had to make the part for the job anyhow...just took it to the next step. What I don't get is the quick and easy install of the west hurley adaptor. To install the west hurley adaptor you must:
Remove or grind off the lug
Drill and tap 2 holes
Fit the adaptor to the slide...requires some filing.
To install our milled adaptor you must.
Remove or grind off lug
Drill and tap 4 holes
Cut off adaptor on scribe line (hacksaw and vice)
reblue or touchup (we will include a small amount of blackfast on request for touch up where the adaptor was cut on the scribe line)
So the trade off is fitting to slide on the numrich model vs drill and tap 2 more holes and a hacksaw cut with our milled slide. Since you would be already set up to tap 2 holes with the numrich slide...it is hardly any work to do 2 more holes. IMHO it is easier to tap 2 more holes and make a hacksaw cut than to file down the adaptor by hand. Plus you get a much nicer adaptor!
"The lock-up of the buttstock is extremly tight and secure with these adaptors."
HUH? Perhaps I missunderstood? I have handled many of these and the dimentional variation is enormous. They are quite a bit wider than "spec" and the distance between the notch that engages the latch and the butt end that stops against the back of the slide channel can have a 1/8 in difference. This could hardly contribute to a firm lockup. They take some work to make them fit tightly...while some cannot be made to fit tightly at all. 4 screws is much more a postive mount and the screw heads can be filled with weld if contouring for even more support. This is a firearm after all. Don't get me wrong Arthur...I do not mean to berate you...It is ok to be happy with your Numrich adaptor.
Thanks everyone for all the constructive imput! Together we can build better mousetraps.
Posted 26 February 2004 - 11:57 AM
I am not a fan of anything Numrich/West Hurley, but their adaptors, while not the ideal solution to their lack of engineering a removable buttstock to begin with, did the job more than adequately. Why drill more holes than necessary into the frame to secure the adaptor? The entire stock is only secured by a simple latch anyway. Sure it took some modifications and tinkering to fit the adaptor to the stock slide, but you would have to be a totally inept amateur to screw up the incredibly solid lock-up. If Numrich adaptors are no longer available, it's no great loss. While your replacement design will be a welcome to those who have not already employed the Numrich adaptor, I don't see the cutting edge technology improvement over the defunct adaptors. I guess it was the "better mouse trap" proclimation that provoked my response. After all, it is the same mouse, the same trap, but with additional holes to the Swiss cheese.
Posted 26 February 2004 - 12:38 PM
I see you are getting a little emotional in your posts. For some reason my use of "build a better mousetrap" upset you and caused your "reaction". I did not claim it to be the "mother of all adaptors" but a better one then the Numrich model. And it most definately is. I merely was looking for feedback and opinions to possibly get ideas to improve the product. That's what I like to do...build better products when I can. I appologize if this in some way upset you.
I think that here we have to agree to disagree. I just find it suprising that you would so quickly form an opinion over your emotional "reaction"...without ever even seeing one of our adaptors to compare it to your Numrich Adaptor. I know which one I would rather have on my gun.
Posted 26 February 2004 - 03:46 PM
Posted 26 February 2004 - 04:08 PM
I think it is a great idea. Just because Numrich made an adapter that works, it doesn't mean that we like it. I had a Numrich adapter- ugly as sin.
This is America; if you make a better product, people will buy it.
Everything I have bought from TommyGunner.com has been top notch. I don't see why this product would be any less.
Keep us informed on the frames!
Posted 26 February 2004 - 07:12 PM
in the really old days you probably would have worked at VL&A or petes VON frantzius or scaramuzzo's..........