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Dewat From Moscow?


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#1 TommyGunner

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 09:58 AM

Hello All!

I noticed a DEWAT thompson for sale on ebay from moscow:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...07&category=585

I was hoping that some of the more knowlegeable members would be able to share some info on this. Can this be legally imported and possesed with the proper dewat registration. Would this meet us standards as a DEWAT? Seems suspect!

Thanks for the help!
Damon

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#2 LIONHART

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 11:19 AM

Gun can't be shipped here. sad.gif
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#3 TommyGunner

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 12:42 PM

That's what I thought. Too bad huh? I can just picture some poor sucker trying to have this shipped to his house! Thanks Lionhart.
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#4 billie32

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:00 PM

The problem with it really is that the seller would have no trouble shipping it, however, when it reaches US customs, it would be the buyer who would be in trouble for trying to smuggle an unregistered machine gun into the country, even if he didn't know that ATF does not recognize foreign deactivation certificates unless the receiver is cut in three pieces or the right sideplate is removed and destroyed (remember ignorance is no excuse). Someone should really report it to ebay to prevent what could be a huge problem for some unsuspecting US buyer.
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#5 Tman

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 08:44 AM

I saw the item last nite and was going to send a note to Ebay this morning.
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#6 Tman

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 09:30 AM

Message sent to Ebay this morning. I'll let the board know what Ebay says when I get it.
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#7 Ron Mills

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 10:47 AM

Tman, thanks for doing that. I saw the gun and should have done what you are doing. A while ago, there were a couple of PPSh-41's from "Ukraine" on there. I don't know if they ever sold.
Yeah, pity the poor buyer! I'd be curious as to "deactivation standards" in the former USSR. I'm proud to be a part of a group of folks in these forums that want to keep it clean, clean, clean, i.e. Within The Law!

Thanks again,

Ron
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#8 Whiskey Brother

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:23 AM

I e-mailed the seller last night. No reply as of yet. I hope his dewat finds a good home though, it would be a shame to chop it up...
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#9 TSMGguy

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:31 PM

I e-mailed the seller, Oleg, yesterday and got a nice reply. He has other TSMGs for sale at $530. He says the item would go through the customs clearance and forwarding firm that he uses in the US, and that the gun comes with either a Russian or Ukranian DEWAT certification. This is, of course, no good here. This is a pity as the gun on Ebay appears to be a new condition M1 TSMG. I'm more interested in the Harley WLAs that he has for sale either as projects or completed restorations. If I can figure out an acceptable escrow arrangement, I might just purchase one.
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#10 rkr

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:00 AM

Ebay has pulled this item.
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#11 TommyGunner

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:14 AM

What a bunch of nice guys! Most likely just saved some unsuspecting fellow from a possible world of hurt! tongue.gif
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#12 Motorcar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:26 PM

Gunbroker.com is listing a M1A1 "Dewat" for sale with a buy now price, the dude says he has more of them and can be shipped to the U.S. for $40, sounds like the same guy trying to sell off Ebay doesn't it?
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#13 hawksnest

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:27 PM

Look at item 10863240 on www.Gunbroker.com. You would think they would be smarter than e-bay.
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#14 Motorcar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:28 PM

Hawksnest, You and I were typing at the same time! Guess this guy will just keep trying.
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#15 TSMGguy

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:18 PM

Ebay is availiable to sellers and buyers world-wide. What's not legal here may be perfectly legal and importable elsewhere. I hope that no one on this board, particularly someone residing in the US, took it upon themselves to torpedo this seller. The proper response was not to bid on his item if it was known beforehand that the item is not importable. This is the same kind of thing that happens when someone offers a C or L drum on Ebay. It may not be legal in New Jersey or California, but it is perfectly legal in Texas and elsewhere. JMHO.
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#16 TommyGunner

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:41 PM

TSMGguy,

I see that this item is listed in the us market. While other countries can take part in this market i belive that they have to follow the rules of that market. I do not think Ebay, in the us market anyway, would allow a "gun" to be listed unless it was classified as a "non gun" by the atfe. Ebay in the US market does not allow guns to be listed. This is an illegal gun in the us...so it would not be allowed on ebay's us market anyhow.

Ebay's firearms ban states " Any item that is designed to propel a metal (or similar) projectile is covered by this ban, regardless of that item's present ability to fire."

also

"Generally, ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts) is not permitted, even if the user states that the item is "unserviceable" or has been "demilitarized" or "demilled," as eBay cannot confirm that the item has effectively and permanently altered for lawful and safe transport and sale. However, unserviceable military type weapons may be listed if the listing contains a clear scan of official documentation from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) stating that the item is unserviceable or demilitarized. "

I see they can list fighter jets for private sale on ebay's german market. A move that would not be allowed here for sure. Just my 02.

Damon

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#17 Fencer

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 04:32 PM

Here we go again, now the French are involved.

God this is one beautiful gun.

Ebay Auction for M1928A1 Item # 2187098083
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#18 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 07:56 PM

Hardrede,
Actually the illegal importation of a non U.S. registered submachine gun (de-watted, or otherwise) violates laws that date back to the 1968 law under LBJ, and the 1986 law under Reagan.

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#19 Bisley45

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 08:36 PM

And you forgot to damn any politician who whould prohibit the remportation of a beautiful object like that

BB
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#20 Walter63a

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:10 PM

Bisley45, you've got that right. biggrin.gif If only all the 2nd. Ammendment rights groups in America spoke with one voice, voted with one aim, and acted together to rid our nation (through voting, speaking and political action $) of the cowards who would disarm us. The politicians forget that they serve the people and at our pleaure (we vote).
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