C&r Status For Wh 28's
Posted 22 March 2004 - 11:43 AM
While doing research on a S&W model 76, I came across the fact the fact that they are considered C&R guns. I found that S&W made about 6000 of them from 1968-1974. I scoured the TCA issues on the net and found the production numbers for WH 28's, did the math and found that only 2900 or so were made between 1975 and 1986. My question is how did S&W M76's get C&R status when there are alot more of them that of WH 28's? They are not 50 yrs old or older, not rare, bizarre or associated with a historical character or event. I guess some curator of a museum said they are cuz that's the only way I see them getting C&R status. WH 28's should be able to fit because their value is derived from the fact that approximately 2900 of them were made and I imagine that not all of them survive today.
I submit to you that we WH 28 owners should apply to have our fine weapons designated as C&R's. I'm willing to put my name on a letter. Any other takers? I would think that we would need to get a good number of owners to sign off on the request.
Posted 22 March 2004 - 12:41 PM
Posted 22 March 2004 - 12:41 PM
Excellent idea. I read a question here about a year ago that was very similar. I think the TCA should be the group to petition that cause as well as this group (many are involved in both).
Which brings up some questions... will that make the "value" of WH guns approach the originals? If so, is that a bad thing? Will the TCA support Westies? I sense an Arthur reply....
I hope this could be done. I won't be able to attend the annual TCA meeting this year, but maybe it could be brought up there!
Posted 22 March 2004 - 08:18 PM
Posted 22 March 2004 - 09:46 PM
Posted 22 March 2004 - 10:24 PM
Posted 22 March 2004 - 10:33 PM
What boggles my mind is the WH M1s. Apparently they're C&R due to there being only 609 of them, but with listed serial numbers (BATF C&R list, nfatoys.com's listing, and WH A-O listings) of M100A-M717A that comes up with 618 guns...what happened to the other 9 and what serial numbers are missing??? (I know, we've hashed through this before and AFAIK, never did find a satisfactory answer.)
Edited by Bill in VA, 22 March 2004 - 10:39 PM.
Posted 22 March 2004 - 10:37 PM
I would say go for it on the WH 28s. hell it's worth a shot. but the ATF has no rhyme or reason as to why they do stuff. if all you do is look at the number made and how many examples exist in the registry, that will not answer your question. they don't solely look at # made. if that was the only criteria, the ATF would have added the Colt AR-15 01 to the C&R when i asked as the Colt marked 01s are a lot more rare than the Armalite marked ones are.
it's worth a shot, but don't get your hopes up. that way if they add the WH28s to the C&R list, you will really surprised.
Posted 23 March 2004 - 09:08 AM
Posted 23 March 2004 - 10:34 AM
Posted 23 March 2004 - 08:52 PM
|QUOTE (craig101 @ Mar 22 2004, 10:37 PM)|
|I seriously doubt you will get the WH28 thommpsons that were originally .22 then converted to .45 to be C&R. when i got the ATF to make the .22 WH29s to be C&R, they agreed in that they were original and a fair amount had been "altered" to .45 caliber.|
The .22 caliber XXXTF serial numbered guns were not converted or altered to .45. The receivers were destroyed and the serial numbers attached to new .45 receivers right before the 86 ban, yes?
Posted 23 March 2004 - 08:57 PM
|QUOTE (The1930sRust @ Mar 23 2004, 08:52 PM)|
|The .22 caliber XXXTF serial numbered guns were not converted or altered to .45. The receivers were destroyed and the serial numbers attached to new .45 receivers right before the 86 ban, yes?|
That's also my understanding.
Posted 23 March 2004 - 10:15 PM
Posted 23 March 2004 - 10:47 PM
"In the absence of any objective criteria for C&R classification, it is not possible to predict what an administrative employee will or will not do. We can guess. And the process seems to be rather liberal."
you are correct in that we don't know what the ATF will say on the WH28s. all we can do is surmise. in your view the process seems rather liberal, but in my view i don't think it is that liberal.
if it was so liberal why are not all Amnesty AKs on the list?? by the numbers and $$$ value, they have EVERY right to be on the C&R list, but you have submit each original AK to see if the ATF will consider them C&R. hell so should the 10 or so ORIGINAL UZIs (pre-70) and original MP5s (pre-70).
what does rather liberal mean? does it mean if i submit a reasonable, factual letter with valid reasons as to why a gun should be added to the C&R list that they will automatically rubber stamp it? i didn't experience that, as they did not approve my petition to have the Colt 01s added to the C&R list.
however, they did approve my petition to add the .22 WH28s to the list.
but which criteria does the WH 28 satisfy to be a C&R gun? is it 50 years old? is it odd/derive a large part of its value from being an oddity/curio? was it part of any significant "event"? have they been certified to be C&R of museum interest? i think no on every question.
like i said before, don't get your hopes up. that way if they approve it, you can be happy rather than let down.
I REALLY wish they would add A LOT more MGs to the C&R list as i live in a C&R state.
Posted 24 March 2004 - 01:11 PM
Posted 24 March 2004 - 08:33 PM
Posted 24 March 2004 - 09:08 PM
Also, we probably need to get a good list of owners who want to submit their name on the proposal. I notice that on some C&R's on the list show individual firearms. I think we should go for the whole lot instead of piecemeal.
I have no problem taking the lead on this and maybe call in a favor or two.
Posted 24 March 2004 - 09:30 PM
Posted 25 March 2004 - 12:28 PM
By the way, notice that the 17 Vietnam Comm. WHs do not appear to be C&Rs or am I missing the line.