Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Fiber Washer Disintegrated In My '28.....


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 23 March 2004 - 05:32 PM

Pulled my '28 A.O. Bridgeport apart tonight because I have a few students in my Firearms Safety class who wanted a look at it. Went to cock it (to check the "lube") and it was quite sticky.
Pulled the lower off and inside was full of red fiber bits and flakes!! huh.gif

Last fall I cleaned it up and let the son of a friend shoot about 50 rounds through it (He'd just gotten back from Iraq, requested to shoot the Thompson and it was the least I could do!).
Since it wasn't too dirty I put it away and forgot about it until today.

I've been using the same cleaning concoction for years and never had a problem with this washer. I have a spare but has anyone ever had one come apart in 50 rounds??? blink.gif

Surprised the heck out of me!!

john
  • 0

#2 The1930sRust

The1930sRust

    Respected Member and Board Donor

  • Moderator
  • 1939 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Confederate, Kentucky
  • Interests:Thompsons, obviously. Proud West Hurley 1928 and Savage M1 owner, cave explorer, and KSP trooper (retired). Also interested in 1920-1930 American history. I appreciate all Thompson models and their owners.

Posted 23 March 2004 - 05:52 PM

Never heard of it, but considering their age...

Why don't you upgrade to one of the newer disks? They afford better protection. I think PK sells them, and if I am not mistaken there is a dealer in the FAQ that has them.


  • 0

#3 AZDoug

AZDoug

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 200 posts

Posted 23 March 2004 - 07:59 PM

We have new hard urethane ones. $6 each, delivered.

www.srtarms.com

Look under other products, you will see a link for buffers.

DougSRT Arms
  • 0

#4 John Jr

John Jr

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1956 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mena, Arkansas, USA
  • Interests:Plenty

Posted 23 March 2004 - 08:11 PM

Same thing happened to mine. They wear out. PK sells a great one for $6 delivered too. What kind of ammo were you using? Mine busted up using South African PMP

Jr
  • 0

#5 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 24 March 2004 - 06:22 AM

Wolf Ammo. But I've shot a bit of this before and never a problem. My cleaning solution is made as follows:

2 Gal. Kerosene
2 Gal, Mineral Spirits
3 Qts. Marvel Mystery Oil
1 Qt. Rislone Engine Treatment

I use a 6 gallon pail (with a screw-on Beta lid) and have a strainer in the bottom. Hold out a few quarts to add back in as you use the stuff up. Works great for everything, but it WILL discolor Nickel Plating a bit. No problem with polymers, though.
I've heard it's kinda like "Ed's Red" but I'm not familiar with that mix.

I got this recipe several years ago from American Gunsmith Magazine....they recommended this as a parts washer solution and had thoroughly tested it on everything (except, probably, a Thompson Fiber Washer??)

I'll probably pick up a couple urethane washers after I get back from Knob Creek, but I need something to use down there.....and can't find my spare washer! (and don't think I have enough time to order something??)

Anyone know the original dimensions of the original fiber washer?? (ID, OD and thickness)?? Have a friend with a machine shop....he recommended Nylatron...thought Delrin would be too brittle. Anyone else have any ideas?? huh.gif

john
  • 0

#6 M1Brian

M1Brian

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 83 posts

Posted 24 March 2004 - 02:27 PM

I have not personally called the range yet, but someone who shoots there on a regular basisjust told me they have signs up that state No Wolfe Ammo Allowed. Apparently there has been a problem with firearms coming apart when useing it. It became a safety issue. The name of the range is The Firing Line located in Westland, MI . I had heard of corrosive problems but had also heard that had been corrected. I almost thought the guy was just exagerating but he insisted the sign was up. I was just getting ready to see if any of the board members used it and I guess now is a good time. Does anyone use Wolfe and have any input on reliability and accuracy?

M1Brian
  • 0

#7 M1Brian

M1Brian

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 83 posts

Posted 24 March 2004 - 02:29 PM

Is it Wolf or Wolfe? Getting old CRS

M1Brian
  • 0

#8 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1008 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 24 March 2004 - 05:23 PM

I have fired over 5,000 rounds of Wolf .45 in my Thompsons (1928A1 and M1A1) without any problems.
  • 0

#9 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 24 March 2004 - 05:24 PM

Thanks Phil.
I'll get to work making one and when I get back from KCR I'll upgrade to a urethane (unless I see one or two fro sale down there).
The cleaning solution works just like CLP. The Rislone is kinda like STP....thick and sticky until it is thinned out by the "mix". It and the Marvel oil leave a film on the metal parts after the kerosene and Mineral Spirits evaporate. I've used this and regular surplus CLP for as long as I've owned the gun. This mix to clean and CLP to lube before I shoot. I've also done a "rust" test with my friend (a machinist) where he used his own mix (same as mine but Dexron in place of the Marvel oil and STP in place of the Rislone). We cleaned the surface of some 4140 he had and dipped one piece in my mix. one in his and one in GI CLP. After hanging outside on the edge of his shops awning for six months (in direct rain runoff) his was spotted, the CLP was OK and mine was OK. Not too bad for stuff that'll cost ya less than $25.00 for five gallons!!
The CLP I buy usually is down a couple inches with the lithium grease settled out at the bottom of the jug. I open it, top it off with mineral spirits and shake the hell out of it. Works great! biggrin.gif

As for the wolf, I've found it to be consistent and accurate, a bit on the hot side (chronoed at about 820 fps if I remember...) and a good bargain. I don't care for the varnish coating, but I can clean!!
If anyone has any evidence that this stuff is unsafe, let us all know (I'm not the only one who shoots this stuff!!)
BTW, the hungarian stuff works great in my gun also....

john
  • 0

#10 21 smoker

21 smoker

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1333 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West coast ,FL
  • Interests:collecting nfa, old cars, huntin` n fishin`, reloading ammo

    NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR
    MVPA RESTORATION MEMBER
    MARINE CORP LEAGUE PISTOL TEAM MEMBER

Posted 24 March 2004 - 07:23 PM

John,M1 Brian,... I`ve used Wolf ammo in 9mm and .223,...works ok as far as cycling,but I have 5 broken bolts to show for it in a Sten...and every time I dump a drum in the M16 I can count on a for sure lockup of the bolt with a stuck casing glued into the chamber.I`m going back to brass cased ammo,mostly my reloads,and some commercial too,what I save on down time and broken parts should offset any cost of ammo increase,my .02,out wink.gif

P.S. Thanks for the formula, I`m gonna try some next time.
  • 0

#11 BASS6621

BASS6621

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 19 posts

Posted 25 March 2004 - 07:47 PM

I did have my Savage 28A1's original red buffer disintegrate just as described above the first time I shot it. Pulled the lower off and found it had crumbled to dust; looked like old eraser shavings. Didn't find this out until I went to clean it. No failures of any type were experienced during that session.

The ammo I was using the first time out was Winchester. I use .45 Wolf all the time (and 9mm in other SMGs) and have never had an issue, but YMMV.

  • 0

#12 John Jr

John Jr

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1956 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mena, Arkansas, USA
  • Interests:Plenty

Posted 25 March 2004 - 08:37 PM

Does anyone know what happens if you use like 2 or even 4 buffers instead of one? Does it speed up the gun?

Jr
  • 0

#13 PK.

PK.

    Technical Expert

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CO, USA
  • Interests:Full time gunsmith who loves Thompsons, 35+ years experience.

Posted 25 March 2004 - 09:49 PM

If the buffer is to thick (3/16" is correct), the ears on the bliss lock will not contact the felt pads of the oiler and can not be properly lubricated. You will also decrease the distance/time that the bolt has to slow down and loose inertia. Neither is good. If you want to speed things up, go ’21.

Polyurethane is a much better material than the old fibre stuff (which really doesn’t “buff” at all) and in a properly dimensioned part should never fail.

  • 0

#14 AZDoug

AZDoug

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 200 posts

Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:01 AM

Too many buffers:

Will let the gun run away, as the sear can't catch.

The reason i originally started making these urethane buffers was I bought a soft molded urethane buffer from another party several years ago, and it was too thick.

Not too much, but it was about a 1/4" thick instead of the normal 3/16".

With the too thick buffer, what happened was, the bolt would catch on the firt sear notch, and get jammed against the buffer, because the buffer was too thick, and merely pulling the trigger didn't get enuf leverage to release the bolt.

You had to pull the actuator back a tad, pull the trigger and release the bolt onto the second sear notch to make it operable, until it jammed again.

PITA.

Doug
www.srtarms.com
  • 0

#15 john

john

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 551 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota

Posted 26 March 2004 - 05:59 PM

Phil.
Good point about checking to see how far out the back end of the pilot is sticking out of the receiver. I'll remember that as mine was out quite a bit farther than it should have been! This buffer was an original surplus item that came with the gun....maybe in it's original state it was a bit more springier, but when I bought the gun it was as hard as a rock!!

I have made some Nylon buffers and some Nylatron buffers. Nylatron is stiffer, but might crack. I have experimented with nylon spacers before and eventually they flatten out....I also cut some high durometer urethane sheeting into washers that fit in place just like the original buffer. these should work well enough....but we'll see after we get to Knob Creek and put some rounds through it!! cool.gif
I'll still buy a couple Urethanes from either PK or AzDoug when I get back (unless these work flawlessly??) wink.gif
Will keep all posted when I return!!

john
  • 0

#16 SecondAmend

SecondAmend

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 610 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2004 - 04:05 PM

M1Brain,

Re the Firing Line in Westland (MI), I once called there to see if they'd let me shoot my TSMG and got a very snotty guy who insisted that they only let certified, full-auto trained Class 3 Dealers or law enforcement officers shoot there. I pointed out that in Michigan, it was perfectly legal for a C&R FFL holder to own a C&R machine gun (which he apparently was totally unaware of) and that I was fully capable of controlling the fire of my gun having fired thousands of rounds through it.

He would not relent so I told him I would take my shooting and the purchase of the numerous rounds of ammo required for full auto fire elsewhere. His loss.

With his ban on Wolf ammo, no doubt he is worried that some weak-wristed shooter will put rounds of the "high powered" Wolf ammo into his ceiling.
  • 0