14 replies to this topic

[kyle]

FWIW...JC Devine posted the sale prices from their recent auction. I don't know which lot numbers correspond with which gun but I think this range covers the Thompsons. If someone will tell me, I'll edit this message to include that the corresponding item number shown in their online brochure.

Note: Edited to add some serial numbers. Thanks Tom!

Lot # Price
70 $29000
71 Not listed
72 $17500
73 $17000 1921A SN 1513
74 $20000
75 $15000 1921A (Nickel) SN 1978
76 $10000 NAC5
77 $10000
78 $10000 1928A1 SN S260251
79 $12000
80 $ 9000 1928AC SN 152318X
81 $11000 West Hurley SN 1233A
82 $11000
83 $17000 M1A1 SN 519517

Their page indicates there were 1062 lots auctioned that day. No wonder they were in such a hurry.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

$29K for the Colt Navy. The Navy model continues to command more geld than the 1921A's. The figure is short of the Devine projected $30K-$35K, but it seems that the owner of that particular gun got a decent shake. So there were bidders represented at this auction who were prepared to pay premium coin for premium pieces.

[fred]

Arthur, why do you think the Colt Navy commands more than a "genuine 1921A Colt" from the golden era, the early 20's?

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Fred,
The Colt Navy is a 1921A only with a Cutts (usually) two-piece actuator, smaller diameter spring, 1-piece buffer/pilot, and the additional "U.S. Navy" and "8" stamp over the "1". The Navy model has a certain appeal for being the type used by FBI, Secret Service, and the model type adopted by the military.

[John Jr]

My price study showed the 28 Navy guns were more collectalbe over 2 years ago. No big secret there, but as to why, that I dont know.

QUOTE

that the owner of that particular gun got a decent shake.

You mean shake down?

Seller netted $23,200.00

Buyer paid $33,350.00

JC DEVINE got $10,150.00

That represents almost 44% of the sellers net.

Buyer paid 144% of the sellers net.

If I could make these kinds of commissions, I would be retired at 30.

Sure they got a fair shake, whatever. I dont see how anyone thinks this is a fair shake, not even you Arthur.

Jr

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

John J,
Well, considering that Mike, ("Full Auto"), thinks there are Colt TSMG's nestled in quaint undisclosed PD's, (like Mayberry), to be had for $12.5K, then surely $23.2K, by your estimation, is a pretty good figure for the gun with one double date XX mag. Could the seller have sold the gun for the $29.9K without the publicity of the Devine auction? That might be difficult without an oiginal FBI case loaded with C drum, XX mags, oiler, etc.

[John Jr]

Lets get the facts right. The gun sold for 29000, (twenty nine thousand dollars even).

QUOTE

Could the seller have sold the gun for the $29.9K without the publicity of the Devine auction?

The seller did not sell the gun for 29K (corrected number). The seller sold the gun for $33,350.00 and got $23,200.00.

There was a buyer that was willing to pay 33.35K for this gun. This is the price the seller should have been paid in cash. Using this type of medium to sell a gun the seller netted over TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS than he should have. We are talking about the seller effectively paying a 44% commission or getting 56% of the price paid by the buyer.

How about this:

Hi, my I work at the firm Dewey Screwum and Howe. Would you like to sell your property, real or personal for 56% of its current market value? If so, call us quickly.

Or this: Want to buy something for nearly 150% of its value? Would you like to buy an old Corvette that sells for $35,000 on a regular basis and pay over $50,000 for it? If so call us, we can make that happen for you. What a bargain you will be getting. Don’t pass this up! Call today!!!!

An auction service like JC DEVINE does NOT add any value to a firearms transaction. They do NOT help find a buyer that could not have been located by other means. JD Devine is in the business of making thousands of dollars by producing a few magazine type publications and having a quick auction.

Firearms like Thompsons have not yet achieved the realm of Rembrandts. High dollar auctions have their place, but not in the NFA firearms community.

These fees paid by the buyer and seller is absurd in these auctions.

No savvy seller would use the JC DEVINE auction to sell his or her guns. It cost TOO much money. It’s NOT worth the publicity prices charged by DEVINE to sell that way.

Jr

[full auto 45]

Arty, Arty, Arty, the 10 to 12K Colts are out there. Not all are over priced by some turd wanting to get rich. Here are pictures of 2 that were just bought for $10K and $11.5K. All you have to do is start talking to the people like I said before. Don't be afraid to make some old man an offer. This first photo is a Colt bought with a original drum and a couple mags and a original hard case for $11.5K by a friend here in town. I didn't hear about this one until he put money on it or I would have it.

Colt sold in town

This one is from a PD that I have worked a deal on for $10K, just waiting for the red tape guys to get in line. They have agreed on the price. They have had it since 1922 is what the original paper work says.

$10K Colt

So you see, they are out there. Somebody just has to do some leg work. They don't pop up in a email for you. Any auctioneer is going to try and break it off in you on a NFA gun. And not even give the seller a good reach around to boot! So get off you ass and start talking to any and everybody. Hell I've got business cards with my info and what I'm looking for on it I pass out everywhere. I have them on the boards at local gun shops. Not just in Indy but in Ky and Ohio, anywhere I go.

[colt21a]

mike is right...........when 'Thompson Greed' does not kick in................i know >lets see about ten colts out there all bought in around 1985 1989.................still free....and might be on the market soon................for the prices of lets say.............$10,000.00 to $12,000.00..and when they do,i will buy them up...........


then turn around and sell them thru devine.....wink!!! naw just kiddin................i can sell them myself............. and find them myself...................

the best thing is not to look for them,then they appear........it always seems when you want something real bad,you pay too much.............so don't be in a hurry........if it comes to you fine.if not............so what....... take care,ron

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE

Firearms like Thompson’s have not yet achieved the realm of Rembrandts. High dollar auctions have their place, but not in the NFA firearms community.

John J,
Everybody goes into a Devine auction with their eyes wide open. The buyers and sellers commission fees are explained before the auction. Judging by the thunderous silence from sellers and successful bidders, I can only surmise that they are not consumed with your sense of outrage for paying, and or, realizing the prices for the auctioned items. I have no sympathy for any persons involved with this auction. If they are not incensed with the results why should we be? So far the only questionable occurrence was one of the Colt Navy’s being yanked from contention in a no reserve auction. Your buddy suggested that this was the fortune for many of the NFA guns there. Sometimes we are all to ready to presume there is an organized conspiracy when just pedestrian incompetence is actually at play. No doubt this was evident with the bizarre handling of phone bidders. I guess Devine didn’t read in the “Shooters Bible” the part where it stipulates, “Thou shalt not admit Class III weapons into auctions reserved exclusively for antiques and art masterpieces.” Perhaps that was the Eleventh Stone Tablet Moses dropped in Mel Brooks’s movie.

Mike,
If I were the Roger Cox of the new Millennium, I would be canvassing the country for 50% below market value priced Colt TSMG’s for the purpose of resale. Would I stumble across $10K examples? Sure. Have I investigated the possibility of such deals in my neck of the woods? Sure. Have these inquiries yielded your type of results? Negative. Do I really want to spend the time, money, and energy to procure a Colt at some reduced amount just for the sport of it? That is probably an appealing pursuit for you who already has their WWII TSMG, and would only entertain the prospect of buying a Colt TSMG if it could be purchased at pre-Millennium prices. But if a person today wanted to buy their first Colt TSMG, I would not advise them to reject fair market price deals on 90%+ guns on the dim prospect there is some recluse out there who never considered selling their gun, but on the other hand were chomping on the bit to accept an unspecified below market offer for their unknown Colt. I suppose how much is actually gained monetarily by this type of expedition for a private individual’s debut Class III purchase, considering the time spent on the initial search, and added time of , “just waiting for the red tape guys to get in line,” along with the ATF waiting period, is a matter of personality. But If the in vogue credo of the NFA boards is, “You can never pay too much for Class III; just too soon.” then why rely on providence to shine on you for the perfect score before committing to a Colt purchase? I’m sure that if you and your buddy ever sold these latest bargain acquisitions you would not be much below what some of those, “over priced by some turd wanting to get rich,“ are selling theirs for.

Hardrede,
How do you equate the ubiquitous AK-47, made in the tens of millions, to a Colt TSMG? More fun to shoot an AK than a Thompson? Maybe if you’re a female.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Hardree,
You mean "pedantic" not "pendantic". The Ak can only be admired or prized when shooting it, whereas a Colt TSMG can be admired even from afar. But as for the pet names being ascribed to the Thompson, you can blame the 1920 newspaper articles for promoting any name other than Thompson for this smg. I don't think they got any more perosnal than "Chopper," "Chicago Typewritter," or "Tommy." Of course they do call the M2HB "Ma Deuce." Now that's personal!

[colt21a]

and you can call me jay!!or you can call me jay,jay,or you can call me.....................





PLEEEEEEZE.....................we have all been through this before.................i can care less,if you can speel,speakit the kings engrish...................or can orate around a sewer grate.......................

it's all about the "Thompson's".................it take's a village.........................................wink!!!

now for a nice hot plate of white castle's..................

there is no time to bicker..................thompsons are being sold,fondled,oiled, and shot right this very minute..........

care baby,care,Ron

[SecondAmend]

full auto 45 Mike, I do not see how a public agency (that is, your local PD) can be selling ANYTHING, much less an item for $10,000 without an open bidding process. Sounds like a scandal in the making if the deal ever goes through.

[full auto 45]

It's worked before when I bought the M1, they don't have to auction it off. They just have to take a price that will buy them what they want ot restock their department. It just all plays back to the "greed" thing. hey, they contacted me, not me to them. Now I just have to wait.

[John Jr]

QUOTE

I have no sympathy for any persons involved with this auction.

That quote is obvious. You have not been reading the boards have you?

QUOTE

I have no sympathy for any persons involved with this auction. If they are not incensed with the results why should we be?

Again, you have not been reading the boards have you?

Perhaps you have been reading the boards ie...

QUOTE

No doubt this was evident with the bizarre handling of phone bidders.

A bunch of people got a bum rap. This coupled with the high fees charged at this auction just affirms what I have always said about the JC DEVINE auctions. I have NO problems with a Colt Navy selling for 33K+, I just think the seller should get that price. Not over 10K less. What part of that is hard for you to understand?