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27 Frames


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Poll: At around $450 each are they worth it? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

At around $450 each are they worth it?

  1. Yes! It would be worth it. build them ASAP! (33 votes [75.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.00%

  2. NO! the price is to high. Build something else that we can use like cocking knobs, selectors and milled ejectors. (11 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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#1 TommyGunner

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 11:14 AM

The cost to produce a 27 frame contoured to accept a detachable buttstock, unmodified mag catch and 28 style grip would run quite a bit higher than we initially thought. Need to determine if it is worth producing or if we should move on. Thanks in advance for the imput. smile.gif

Damon

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#2 giantpanda4

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 11:22 AM

Damon,

I have seen new condition 28 lower frames go for around that price. Used ones should be around $300 or occassionally less. I doubt you will get enough taker for your business case to build them.

But don't get me wrong, they would be nice to know they are available even at $450. You may find a few buyers!

Any word on making actuators yet? 21 and 28?

My guess is there would be a market for those in the $200 or less range!
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#3 LIONHART

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 11:43 AM

There is NO question that these Frames would be great sellers. Yes, it is worth producing them. There are more owners of the Semi-Auto Thompson than FA Owners. Something to keep in mind. Though I couldn't even imagine any '27 Owner that wouldn't want one! Of course, WE on this forum only account for a very small fraction of Thompson enthusiasts. There are A LOT of folks that would buy these, if advertised in the correct and appropriate places. Shotgun News, Gun List, Thompson Collectors News, Ect. On another note, I haven't seen any used '28 Frames for $300.00 or less. Gun Parts had some Numrich Frames, but they have since sold out. Nor, have a seen any at $450.00! Build them Damon....
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#4 Norm

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:09 PM

I think they would sell well. wink.gif

A Numrich 28 frame costs $276.00. By the time you send it off to be modified, refinished and shipped back. You will probably have nealy $450.00 into the project anyway. I also think that the quality that Damon puts into his stuff is top notch.

Damon, you may offer a discount for purchasing a frame, and stock assembly (with your repro stock slide) as a "package deal."

All of us 27A1 owners have been waiting for this frame.

As we all know, NOTHING for a Thompson (even the semi-autos) is cheap. sad.gif

Lionhart, Numrich does have the frames back in stock now. I have ordered (and received) one. blink.gif

Norm
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#5 LIONHART

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:23 PM

Norm, you pretty much said it all. These Frames are what a lot of folks have been waiting a long time for...YEARS....Just imagine if Kahr were building faithfull SA Thompson Creations. Dealers wouldn't be able to keep them in stock! But we all know Kahr doesn't, and neither did WH. Doug Richardson had produced parts for the SA, and they were all great sellers. I think if Damon started these, the demand would be high. Norm, I wasn't aware that Numrich is selling more of those Frames. The last time I looked, they were out. Also, please be advised that the SA Frames that Damon may build are different in that they hang lower, creating an even more authentic Thompson look, and will also be able to take unmodified Magazine Catches to use with unmodified TSMG Mags. Thats right. One wouldn't need to modify their catch in order to use standard Thompson mags!! smile.gif

Edited by LIONHART, 25 March 2004 - 01:24 PM.

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#6 Bisley45

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:54 PM

Yes, Get to building them PRONTO!!!!!!!!

If they are built to take the 21/28 detachable butstock and cut for the 27 internals but the rocker piviot is cut and marked lock/unlock and premodifed so a few parts can be modifed and the %$&$*@$)! third hand is unescessary; HELL YES they are worth producing. Some of us with large hands like the 21/28 style frame as there is more room to get your hand in there. Take them to a few shows and I bet you would get plenty of orders once people try sticking their hand in there and not having the web of their shooting hand feel pinched when they align the sights.

If you decide to do this can I pre order?

BB

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#7 TN.Frank

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:01 PM

A 27 frame contoured to accept a detachable buttstock, unmodified mag catch and 28 style grip , this would be great. I could pick up one and swap out my trigger assemble and not have to send my gun off for machining. Also, I'd still have my original frame to put back for the collectors value that the gun would have in the future. I say go for it, build away. wink.gif
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#8 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 05:36 PM

Collectors value? The one firearm that will always be worth more modified than the factory versions are the WH/Kahr 1927's.
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#9 TommyGunner

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 06:15 PM

Arthur,

I find it hard to believe that your WH adaptor would add any value to your gun. laugh.gif
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#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 06:34 PM

Damon,
There is no collector value in the WH/Kahr version of the Thompson. So any type of customization could not detract from whatever value exists in the guns. As to whether a frame adaptor alone increases the price value, of course not, but in conjunction with other mods, it can only improve on the desirability, or worth, of ownership.

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#11 TommyGunner

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 10:52 PM

I forgot to mention that this was directed at the semi auto folks. I doubt any of the lucky full auto owners would be interested in these frames...however if we do produce the 27 frame we will also offer 21/28 frames with the option of custom markings. It is looking like a go but would like to get some more feedback before finalizing the decision.

Arthur...don't take things to seriously...life is way to short!


TN.Frank That was part of the idea...it could not hurt to preserve the original parts.


Bisley45...Thanks! Only we were not going to include the forward selector hole and markings but offer a upgrade or kit to do away with the third hand thingy.

Norm...yes I had such a package deal in mind actually, a complete kit with my parts, some vintage parts and Deerslayer wood. Would you please share your opinion on the WH frame you recently acquired?

GiantPanda4...I have looked into actuators and discussed thier production in depth with my folks and Tracie Hill. We all agree it cannot be done for $200. There is a company that produces them for I think $380. This is a more realistic figure for they are delicate to produce.

Thanks to everyone for thier feedback so far

Damon

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#12 Norm

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 06:08 AM

QUOTE
There is no collector value in the WH/Kahr version of the Thompson.


I would have do disagree with this, Arthur (somewhat.) Allthough the WH/Kahr 27A1 will never be worth as much as the worst condition 21/28, there is already a collector following. The early WH guns with real Lyman sights are sought after by many in the semi-auto relm. The A-5 is also another gun that sells well above the retail price.

And to some people's amazement, not everyone strives to own full-auto Thompson. ohmy.gif They do not have the money or simply do not want to deal with paperwork involoved. Some do not have an option; their state does not allow it.

We (the semi-auto owners) understand that the Colt Thompson still reigns as the King of Tommys, but there are many semi-auto fans that enjoy there big, bulky, way-to-long guns at the range.

Back to the subject of the Tommygunner frame, it would have the best of both worlds: no modfictions required and solves almost every problem that 27A1 owners run into (as far as the trigger frame goes.)

Norm



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#13 colt21a

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 12:04 PM

damon i will chime in................anything you do will help the thompson legend...........as a full auto owner originally from chicago...................which did not have full auto ownership..................a little tale................


at the time early seventies,before i went class III............{which later is what i had to do}i purchased a early 27 colt semi auto...............had paperwork signed by a chicago police captain,however when i wanted to get the gun,and make final payment.............i went class three.....and bought a full auto 21colt for $900.00.

from L.E.S.in skokie ,il.

funny thing, the gun then went to curtis earl{sold}and ended up in marty mandall's shop in scottsdale,az. and since i am in az. you can say the gun followed me...........

so you are correct having semi's due to state and federal law's..............and price's............i know alot of people everyday i deal with,who want something nice.as soon as i mention it might cost $10,000.00 and up................

they say oh well!!! i can dream..........they have house payment's, kid's in school.........car payment's,have to eat......and all of life's other trail's...................

and some like collecting's hot wheel's wink!!

so life is too short......................grab the gusto on whatever you have...............and be thankfull you can in this country...........{still}and p.s. build whatever you can when you can..........people will buy it..............just don't get {''Thompson Greed"}a nasty evil................wink!!

take care,ron
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#14 Zamm

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 12:40 AM

Damon,
I think it's a great idea, and would pay off in the end. If it was not for PK, I would have grabbed one sight unseen.
I'm sure with the proper advertising you would sell plenty.
Zamm
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#15 45fan

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Mar 25 2004, 06:34 PM)
There is no collector value in the WH/Kahr version of the Thompson.

Arthur Phlegmenhurler,

It's funny . . . my dear old Dad used to say the same things about those FA TSMG's -- Colt's, Savage, etc . . . 50-odd years ago anyway . . .
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#16 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 01:03 AM

45fan,
You remember what your dad told you 50 years ago? Wow! Do you also remember him telling you that someday some outfit will churn out replica Thompson's and they will will be as good as the original Auto-Ord ones? Well, at least your dad's prescience was consistent.

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#17 awp101

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 09:58 AM

For those of us still learning here...what makes these frames different or what purpose are they trying to fill?

It's hard to vote if you don't know what you're voting for. smile.gif
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#18 Sgt

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 11:26 AM

awp101
Good question. The frames are designed to fit the 1927 a-1 semis, to allow them to accept an original detachable stock, grip, and mags. Some desire these features to make their long guns more consistent with the look of the full-autos. The only other alternative would be to have a machinist modify an original 1928 frame to allow them to work with the semi guns. The possible advantages for building new frames, as opposed to modifying the old ones, is that you won't have to alter a limited collectible frame, and you won't have to pay or wait for modifications, requiring you to send your Kahr out. Summed up, the new production frames would be cheaper and convenient.
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#19 SecondAmend

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 12:14 PM

Please allow me to point out a potential downside to the installation and long-term use of the non-original frame. The wear patterns to the finish on the receiver and original frame will eventually not match. Thus, if the receiver and original frame are, in the future, rejoined, an obvious mismatch which may be unappealing to a potential purchaser will be apparent.

Just something to think about.
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#20 LIONHART

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 12:58 PM

I seriously doubt the wear patterns would be all that noticable. Nor, do I think anybody would really care. I'm sure the new Frames would be blued to match the factory blue pretty closely. Also, I doubt that most owners would even keep their original Frames. I imagine that folks would sell their old Frames to offest the cost of the new one. What sets these Frames apart from the rest? Let me tell you..1) These Frames are copies of the '21/28 Trigger Housings. Allowing your SA '27 to appear just like the Full Auto TSMG. 2) They accept an original '21/28 Rear Grip. 3) Just like an '21/28 Frame, these will accept an original Detachable Buttstock. 4) These will also take an original UNMODIFIED '21/28 Magazine Catch, that will work with UNMODIFIED original Thompson Magazines. No more using modified WH/Kahr Mags. 5) These Trigger Housings will hang lower, creating that authentic Thompson look! 6) What do I mean by "Hang Lower"? Simple. When WH designed the Semi-Auto Thomspon, the Receivers were reduced in height by one-tenth inch. They did this to eliminate persons from installing FA Bolts, ect. By doing this, the Trigger Housings (Frames) mounts one-tenth higher on the SA Receivers. This has caused Drum fitting problems, and Magazines must be modified in order to compensate for the height reduction. NOW, Damons' Frames will be made to hang one-tenth inch lower. This will solve the problems of fitting Drums/Magazines, plus creating that proper Thompson SMG look that were all fond of. The original one-tenth height reduction on the SA Receivers are quite noticable. If one has a '27 next to an original '21/28 one could easily tell a big difference. With these new Frames, the original look of the TSMG Receiver/Frame for YOUR '27 will be intact. Even using a modified '28 Frame one still has to modify Magazines, or modify the Magazine Catch since there still is a height problem. Once Damon introduces these new Trigger Housings, these will be the BEST product EVER developed for the WH/Kahr Semi-Auto Thompsons!

Edited by LIONHART, 28 March 2004 - 01:21 PM.

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