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Sbr, Just How Hard Is It To Get One Approved?


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#1 TN.Frank

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:02 PM

I'm in the process of fixin' up my newly aquired '27a1 and have been kickin' around the idea of having the comp. moved back to an OAL of 16" to keep it legal BUT I've also been thinking about just biting the bullet and sending in for SBR approval. From what I've come to understand I'll need to fill out Form 1, get the local law dawg to sign off on it, finger prints, picture and then send the paper work along with the $200 tax to BATFE. Then I'll have to wait, wait, wait blink.gif for God knows how long(or maybe one of you know?) and once I get the approval I can send off my '27 upper and have a short bbl. installed. I've got a TN.CCW and a Type 03 C&R lic. so I'm sure I'd go thru, it's just all the waiting. I've been waiting a couple of weeks for parts for my '27 and it's killin' me,LOL. Don't know if I could wait for months for paper work to come thru, but on the plus side I'll still have my gun to play with until the paper work gets approved. Anyway, any help or comments would be much appreciated. Talk to ya'll later. cool.gif
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#2 LIONHART

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:13 PM

Frank, you could have the Comp moved back, thus creating an illusion of a shorter barrel, without the hassle of going the SBR route. However, if you really want the FA Thompson look, nothing beats the original length look! I say go for it! Yes, you pretty much have everything in order...
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#3 Norm

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:20 PM

TNFrank,

If you do get ATF aproval and make it an SBR, remember that the following:

1. You can not carry it across state lines without ATF aproval.
2. If you ever sell it, you will have to sell it through a C3. This means a $200 tax to transfer.
3. Do not buy the short barrel UNTIL the ATF aproves the form.

If none of the items listed will ever be a real consideration, then I would say "go for it."


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#4 awp101

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:40 PM

QUOTE (Norm @ Mar 25 2004, 01:20 PM)
TNFrank,

If you do get ATF aproval and make it an SBR, remember that the following:

1. You can not carry it across state lines without ATF aproval.

I had never heard of stipulation #1 until now. Of course I haven't tried to go the SBR route yet either...

Is that true for ALL SBR's or just FA SBR's?

There are a number of folks wanting to turn their semi-auto AK's into clones of the Krinkov, I wonder how many are aware of that?

How much lead time do you have to give the BATFEandsometimesY before crossing state lines? I don't guess you could pop across the state line for a spur of the moment shooting trip then....

Thanks!
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#5 colt21a

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:41 PM

DO IT...............you only live twice................RON
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#6 Ron A

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:51 PM

I have done several SBR - it takes the same time as to full auto - $200. and approx. 90 day wait. Go for it - unless you can afford a full auto. A SBR may be harder to sell later - than a full auto and I question if it will ever go up in value. In fact it may be worth less due to the transfer costs.
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#7 Norm

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 02:29 PM

awp101,

If I am not mistaken, ANY NFA weapon (machine gun, SBR, SBS, supressor, etc.) requires WRITTEN permision from the ATF to cross state lines.

Maybe T-man, a C2, or a C3 can verify it.

Norm

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#8 LIONHART

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 02:34 PM

Unless you have a C&R Machine Gun, and you have a C&R Licence you do not need to contact ATF. Also, if you have an SOT, you can skip that too.
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#9 TN.Frank

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 02:52 PM

Thanks for the replys, some good info. I have wanted this gun all of my life and now that I've got it I never plan on selling it, so that's not a problem. As far as crossing state lines, I'll have to check into that, that might be a problem is I ever wanted to go back to AZ for a visit and wanted to take my Thompson with me. I guess I could start by having the comp. moved back for a 16" oal unit then work on the SBR at a later date. If I really like the 16" I could just stick with it. Money is kind of tight so either way will take some time and that'll give me time to figure out what I want to do. Talk to ya'll later. ph34r.gif
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#10 M1tommygun

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:44 PM

I guess it all goes back to personal preference, and how big the pocket book is. I am waiting for my M1 Thompson SBR to be completed at the local gunsmith. I wanted a full-auto, but I could not afford one at the present time. I bought the M1 version, but the long barrel and the sharp edges only detracted from the look I wanted. I went the SBR route and I have not regretted it. One other thing, if you go the SBR route you need A LOT of patience. All of my SBR dealings started in September of last year, and now I am, hopefully, looking at next Monday to get my completed Thompson back. It has been at the smith for almost two months now.

Scott
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#11 TN.Frank

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:28 PM

2 months to swap out a barrel and head space it, that's crazy. This is something that should take an hour tops. When I worked at McMillan Arms in Phoenix the guys could headspace a bolt gun in about a half hour and that included putting the barrel on and off and putting it on the lathe to cut the barrel back until they got the headspace they wanted. I don't know how hard it would be to headspace a Thompson(couldn't be too bad) but it'd almost be eaiser to just do the barrel swap at home. All you'd need would be the right blocks to put the barrel in, in a vise and a tool to unscrew the receiver from the barrel. Then take off the old barrel, put on the new barrel, toqure to the right specs and check the headspace with a go/ no go gauge and a field gauge. God, 2 months, that's way too long. I do understand that the gunsmith probably has other jobs but I'm sure he could have gotten it out alittle faster. sad.gif
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#12 Tman

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:51 PM

To take a SBR or other registered firearm out of state, one submits a ATF F 5320.20. If you are in good with your examiner, you may be able to fax it in and get a faster approval. I have to do it everytime my living history unit goes to an out of state event.

As Arthur said, if you own a C&R firearm and have a C&R license or are a SOT, you don't need to submit the form.
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#13 Bill in VA

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 05:20 PM

Norm's close, but no cigar just yet... A Form 5320.20 is not required to transport a suppressor or an AOW across state lines, it's only needed for DDs, MGs, SBRs and SBSs. (See 27 CFR, 178.28) As others has stated, if you have a C&R FFL and you wish to transport a C&R NFA firearm across state lines, a 5320.20 isn't required, unfortunately, a short-barrelled WH/Kahr 1927 rifle is not a C&R firearm, so your C&R FFL wouldn't do you much good.

Bear in mind too, the BATF will not approve a 5320.20 unless the destination state allows possession of that particular NFA firearm/device.

Regarding a possible future sale, an SOT is not required to get involved either. Should you decide to sell your new SBR in the future, you have a couple of options. A) If you sell it as an SBR to an in-state buyer, you can sell directly to him, with one transfer tax. NO FFL/SOT needed. B) If you sell to an out-of-state buyer you can either send it to a FFL/SOT or any FFL (non-SOT FFL), but since you're an individual and not an FFL/SOT you'll still need to send it to the FFL (and not the individual) tax paid. (That's transfer tax number one.) Once the SBR arrives at the out-of-state FFL the buyer will have to transfer it from the FFL to him, resulting in transfer tax number 2 (for a total of $400 in transfer taxes, plus the sale price of the gun.) C) You can remove the short barrel form your rifle and write the NFA branch asking that the rifle be removed from the NFRTR as an SBR. Once that's done, you can sell it directly to an in-state buyer, no transfer tax required; or to an out-of-state buyer, first by sending it to the buyer's FFL and tehn from teh FFL to the buyer, again, no tax required.

Edited by Bill in VA, 25 March 2004 - 05:21 PM.

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#14 brian

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 07:07 PM

what happens if your CLEO won't sign off on a SBR?
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#15 Sgt

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 07:28 PM

Brian--
I went the SBR route on my Kahr 27. If your Cleo refuses to sign, you may try other officials in your jurisdiction. The members could correct me if in error, but I've heard that judges, DAs, sheriffs of your county, and even your state police chief can sign. You could also incorporate, but personally that sounds like a lot of hassle to me.
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#16 brian

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 08:33 PM

i hav'nt tryed for an SBR on my kahr, yet. but i do have all my paper work in hand to start the process, and was just wondering what would happen in that event.
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