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Now The Fourth Amendment Under Attack


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#1 Walter63a

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 05:13 PM

Are we on the 'road to Hell,' or, merely, to a Nazi style dictatorship in Amerika? Search warrants will no longer be required for the police to search your house, day or night!!!! If you go out to the range, shopping, or to granny's house, don't be surprised when you return to find the local 'authorities' pawing through your gun collection, or other personal belongings!! The below article should scare the hell out of all freedom-loving Americans!! The liberals are already trashing the First and Second Amendment, so why not the Fourth also!!! blink.gif mad.gif ph34r.gif

Here is the link: http://www.theneworl...483/detail.html

In the event that any of you forgot, The Fourth Amendment states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

As George Washington once wrote, "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." cool.gif
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#2 Sig

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 05:19 PM

Very scary!
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#3 LIONHART

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 05:43 PM

Welcome to the new AMERIKA!
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#4 brian

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 06:03 PM

so if i read that right, it's already in affect? ph34r.gif
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#5 Walter63a

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 06:08 PM

Brian, it is a dangerous precedent, which can now be used by any police department, agency, etc., in the United States, unless, and until, successfully challenged in a court of law. I can see it eventually going to the U.S. Supreme Court, but that could take a while. blink.gif ohmy.gif sad.gif Regards, Walter

P.S. What is truly alarming, is that this is happening at all in America!!! It definately illustrates a trend toward extremism, on the part of our governments and courts!! ph34r.gif
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#6 Nick Iannamico

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 06:13 PM

That is complete bullshit... Basically that leaves the door wide open for harrasement to anyone the police has problems with, neigbors, ex-wives, someone who looked at them wrong..

THERE ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE A CHECK IN PLACE TO KEEP THE POLICE INLINE!! "The law won't be abused" Is not going to cut it... I have this sneaky feeling that a few cops in that town are going to end up dead because of that law.








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#7 21 smoker

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 06:36 PM

Again and again and again,....since about 1959 or so the basic makeup the Supreme Court has drifted to the left and all decisions have been affected that way,slowly but surely...on going every day...the further away we get from basic religious value systems...knowing right from wrong,common sense...the more we diminish the true intent of the Constitution...a basic founding principle that separates us from the rest of the world.my .02.out. wink.gif


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#8 Hurridale

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 07:52 PM

Walter,

Thanks for the heads-up. Your concern about trashing the Constitution is well-justified.

I'm concerned about you automatically sticking the "liberal" tag on the court, with the implication that the "conservatives" are some salvation. I wish it were so! Of the 19 judges listed on the 5th's biography page (http://www.lb5.uscou...io/judgebio.htm), 2 were appointed by Ford, 3 by Carter, SEVEN by Reagan, 4 by Bush the First, and 3 by Slick Willy.

Now, counting Ford, Reagan, and Bush I as conservative, they appointed 13 of 19 judges on the 5th Circuit - a pretty clear majority.

I get real concerned when labels start interfering with the issues. Fact is, the Constitution is under attack; whether the attackers are "liberals" or "conservatives" is not the point. And the best tool the attackers have is to try to cloud the issue of what's Constitutional by throwing in political devisiveness.

I don't think the "Patriotic Act" would be considered very liberal, but to me is about the scariest thing to come down the pike in quite a while as far as endangering the Constitution. And it's only the first step. Just wait till "Patriot II" hits the streets.

It ain't about being liberal or being conservative. It's about being Constitutional. I'll back whoever is willing to stand up to that. Problem is, that makes for pretty slim pickin's these days.

I say fire 'em ALL!

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DC
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#9 wolfer113

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 07:58 PM

I probley shouldn't say all this...i'm not that kinda guy....but...i work my ass off for what i have and its MINE....i'm not a criminal...i try to be a good person and help people all i can....but all i got to say is...IF ANYONE WALKS IN MY HOUSE AT ANYTIME THAT I DON'T KNOW AND WITH NO REASON......I'LL BLOW THEIR ASS AWAY..end of story.....oh well...I'M SICK AND TIRED OF BULLSHIT LAWS...they can stick them all up there ass...THEY take ALL our rights and don't do a fucking thing to the ones causing the problems....i refuse to give them my protection and my rights....They act like THEY own US...they need a good waking up and WE as a country need to start making OUR own LAWS and stop letting a fucked up goverment run our lives in a country WE OWN.....IF it takes a war against our own goverment...i'm all for it......i'll gladly die for our rights..our kids rights and the rights that so many have already fought and died for.....i will NOT be a victum of a nazi like goverment.....they will NOT disarm me and totally control my life.....and if it comes to it...well...i guess they'll make me a criminal...and i really think i could make a pretty ruthless one too.....WHATS IT GONNA TAKE TO STOP THIS BS??????
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#10 LIONHART

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 08:03 PM

Wolfer, I couldn't have said it better. Well done! I agree completely!
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#11 Walter63a

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 08:39 PM

Hurridale, true enough, we have enemies of the truth, enemies of freedom, enemies of constitutional government on both sides of the center, in this Nation, in the Twenty-First Century! However, just because someone was appointed by a conservative, does not automatically make him/her a conservative. A case in point is Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter. He was appointed by the first President Bush. He has turned out to vote most often with the likes of the liberal/liberal center Sandra Day O'Connor. They are individuals with their own consciences and ideologies. However, you are right, the problem is one of constitutionality vs. unconstitutionality. blink.gif ohmy.gif unsure.gif cool.gif Regards, Walter
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#12 Sgt

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 08:54 PM

How is it that judges have the right to re-write the consitution? There is absolutely no representation in this case. Where are the checks and balances?
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#13 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 08:59 PM

Eliminating the Miranda reading is one thing, but making it legal for unreasonable search and seizures is another. I don't think there would be much support for this sort of action by the right or left in this country. But the Supreme Court is too busy considering whether the phrase "under God" is Constitutional.
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#14 Walter63a

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 09:01 PM

Sgt., call it 'judicial activism,' judge-made-law, or circumventing the normal legislative process. Call it what you will, it is a total disregard for the will of the people. There is trouble in America, and this judicial activism is a very big part of it. You see, what the liberals (primarily) can't get by normal legislation, they seek to impose upon the people, via 'judge-made-law'!! ohmy.gif blink.gif mad.gif cool.gif Regards, Walter
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#15 TN.Frank

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 11:23 PM

If all the gun owners in this country would come together I'm sure that there is a 3rd. World country out there some where that we could take over and install a Constitutional Government in. Heck, maybe we could "liberate" Alaska or something and make it a country all on it's own. I'm just gettting sick of freedom loving people getting the short end of the stick while criminals(real ones, not ones made that way by crappy laws) get to do as they please. We've got to do something and soon or we'll have nothing to fight our government with except rocks. I just wish for once everyone that would vote Republican would vote for the Libertarian party, I think they've got some good ideas and could help fix a lot of what's wrong with OUR country. If the SHTF I'd like to think that we'd stick together. I guess I need to meet with some of ya'll in the mid-Tennessee area so we can all get to know one another while we still can. I'm not saying we need to form a "militia" but maybe a "shooting club" in the Crossville-Cookville area wouldn't be a bad idea, if ya' get my drift. wink.gif Talk to ya'll later, in the mean time, watch your six. ph34r.gif
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#16 wolfer113

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 11:37 PM

who gave ANYONE the power to change our RIGHTS? i don't understand.....hell even the ten commandments they twist around...and they make GOD a bad thing....what kinda screwed up crap is that??? can't prey here and there....etc etc etc..can't have in god we trust...etc etc etc......well...everything else is just fine and dandy....you can go out and whore around and get knocked up and kill the child before its born...well..ummm..thats legal MURDER.....so murder is legal i guess.....and can't say anything about these jihad fuckers and their ways because its "descrimination" but they take prayer out of schools....etc etc....attack every custom us AMERICANS have but on the other hand don't say anything about the jihad because thats descrimination...screw them!....this is OUR country...they came here and if they don't like OUR ways..they can jihad they as right back across the water....which i'd rather they do anyways....and change OUR language for the wet backs???? screw them too....its AMERICAN...we speak english...if you can't talk it and understand it..GO HOME....and work and PAY TAXES like we do also...hell i can solve alot of the countrys problems....shut the damn borders down...take care of our own people first....that'll put a big curve on the terriost attacks if they can't just walk right in and here i am doing good to get by...and some camel jockey strolls in from india or somewhere with NOTHING and OUR goverment GIVES them all this money to go out and buy hotels and gas stations....etc etc etc.....hell they are millionaires in a couple years....and i'm born and raised here and paid taxes all my life and struggle to get a better intrest rate on a home i done good to even get......ooohhhhhh the jobless rate is at all time high for americans...well duhhhhhhhhh...the wet backs and camel jockeys are getting all the jobs......hhummmm....the more of them that come in over here the less americans have jobs......we have kids going without food and medical attention and our goverment is spending billions and billions on "freeing iraq" screw iraq!! what about us?? thats OUR money your blowing up sand boxes over there with....what kinda crap is that????? we have plenty problems in AMERICA to wage war on...can start by rolling in OUR military in the streets of america and doing some cleaning up!! start with the HOODS....and all the dead beat non child support paying men and whore women living in the projects driving new cars and selling dope and getting a check from US....screw building iraq back,,,we have homeless over here......what the hell is wrong with our goverment????
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#17 John Jr

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 11:42 PM

Same as letting faggots marry. Couple of worthless judges and you have a "precedent." This ruling will die, dont get your panties in a wad.

Jr
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#18 Walter63a

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 11:56 PM

I hear all of you guys! ph34r.gif At present, the best we can do is stay informed, vote, and try to educate our friends and neighbors, etc. smile.gif And, finally, the Founding Fathers of America left us a very valuable legacy of firearms ownership, for the law-abiding, and a right to peaceable assembly. So, why not, form social shooting clubs!! biggrin.gif Regards, Walter

P.S. Also, many thanks to Nick and Frank, for this excellent board. People of like mind, and will, can be informed, entertained, communicated with, and organized, etc. rolleyes.gif
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#19 wolfer113

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 12:31 AM

shooting club sounds great.....we probley should do that before theres a ban on that too.....atleast we'll have a preban shooting club one day....lol.....hey TNFRANK.....i'm in tennessee also....North of nashville.....i'll be needing a good place to streatch my .50 rifle out when it gets here
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#20 NDLawyer

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 07:31 AM

Well, I can at least impart a bit of good news on this subject.

First, the Fifth Circuit only encompasses Texas, Lousianna, and Mississippi. The opinion is only binding law in those three states. Other circuits may look to the 5th Circuit opinion for guidance, but they are not bound to follow it.

Second, the was not simply an instance of the government entering a house and searching. The issue was whether the police after being allowed inside, had authority to make a "protective sweep" of the master bedroom of the house where the three rifles were found in plain view. (the resident, Mr. Gould, who occupied that bedroom was a convicted felon and could not legally possess a firearm under federal law). I think this opinion really supports the theory "bad facts make bad law". Read the first couple paragraphs of the opinion to find out why the police were at Mr. Gould's residence in the first place.

While I don't necessarily agree with the erosion of fourth amendment rights caused by this case, it is not as bad as it could be. We will have to wait for Patriot II for that.

The opinion is alarming, but hopefully will be reviewed by the US Supreme Court. It was a March 26, 2004 published opinion by an en banc panel of the 5th Circuit (all of the judges):

United States of America v. Kelly Donald Gould

http://www.ca5.uscou...629-CV0.wpd.pdf

This opinion was published two days after a 3 judge panel of the 5th circuit found the district court judge was proper in suppressing the search.

http://www.ca5.uscou...629-CV0.wpd.pdf

I haven't had time to read the entire 64 page opinion yet, I may revise this post when I do.

Until then, be careful what you post, you never know who in the government is watching you . . .


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