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Cracked Wh 28 Receiver


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#1 randyron

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 09:41 AM

sad.gif Anyone with a perminant fix for cracks in the rear of the receiver? I had the problem two years ago, had the receiver tig welded, after drilling a small hole at the end of the crack. I then installed the Gunmachines buffer kit, and left the blish lock in. This slowed the rate of fire to 600 for WW ball and 700 for TZZ ball, of which I only fired about a box. Now the cracks are back. My very knowledgeable smith suggests a slight radius in the corner but would like anyone with possible experience in this matter before we proceed.
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#2 Chopper28

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 11:39 AM

I would send it to PK here on the board. If he can't fix it nobody can.
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#3 DC Chris

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 07:48 PM

RandyRon-

Did you read the FAQ at the top of the forum? It talks about the receiver problem you are experiencing. I agree with what Chopper28 says, but I am curious - was your gun modified otherwise besides the new buffer kit? Is your WH older (sn 1xx-15xx) or newer (2XXX+)?

From what I have seen, read and experienced myself these should not crack under normal circumstances. I know its water under the bridge for you right now. PK should be able to correct any innerworkings that are not up to snuff and hopefully cause it not to crack anymore. The receiver might just be the sign of a bigger problem inside of non-standard parts.

Chris.
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#4 John Jr

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 09:38 PM

I think you might replace it with a Richardson display and have someone like PK or Ohio Ord or R. Ellisworth fix you a new gun. I know nothing about this process, but I know it can be done.

Take care

John Jr

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#5 randyron

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 09:52 AM

DC Chris: This gun is a later gun 2600+ range. It has a Savage actuator and bolt. Runs great, but for the cracks. I have a very competant Class III dealer (only one in non class III state)in town that can do anything from heat treatment to build a new receiver. Just need to know what. Tig welding didn't seem to do the job. I'll check the FAQ

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#6 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 10:27 AM

John J,
There is an obscure little ruling about making any new machine guns, which is what you were suggesting PK do for randyron with a DR receiver. I know you were only 12 when the 1986 law was enacted, but maybe your Mom might have read it to you as a bedtime story?

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#7 TD.

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 10:37 AM

RandyRon,
There is a real nice gentleman in Michigan that has a West Hurley with the same rear receiver cracking problem you described. His name is Glen Wittenberger and he is a member of the Thompson Collectors Association. If I remember correctly, his receiver cracked several times before a permanent fix could be found. I have an e-mail address for him that may still be good. If you would like it, send me an e-mail requesting it. I am sure others on the board know Glen and may have more up to date contact information. Whatever the fix it must have worked because during the last TCA show, his gun ran flawlessly. Tom

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#8 PK.

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 11:06 AM

In welding there are there basic considerations;

Filler metal selection
Joint preparation
Techniques applied

Although rumors and opinions abound, I have been unable to find a reputable claim as to the material used in the manufacture of WH receivers, much less substantiate such information. This is important as the selection of a proper filler metal and technique are directly affected by the base metal you are trying to repair. We know it is steel and very possibly a free machining variety- most of which are not recommended for welding. The best success is obtained with a filer designed for joining “unknown” and difficult to weld steels. The down side to this is that these alloys usually have a very high nickel content (giving them ductility) and don’t blue well, if at all. This can be overcome by using a baked on coating type of finish instead of bluing. It becomes a function vs. vanity thing.

The tried and true method of drilling a hole at the end of a crack to halt it’s propagation works well if you don’t intend to repair the crack. If you weld the crack, you must prepare the joint so that every bit of the fissure is consumed in the process. You must insure 100% penetration and no inclusions.

Pre heat, post heat and the welding technology utilized can make a big difference in the success of the repair. In the repair of a fault such as we are discussing, Tungsten Inert Gas (TIG) would be the only readily available option to be considered in my opinion.

I also would recommend a conversation with Glen, you should be able to get his e mail from the members list, he posts under his name.

Usually a fillet (radius in a corner) is made in the initial cut. If it is not there now, more material needs to be removed to create it (not good) unless you are welding into a corner, in which case the weld can be filleted.

If you have used a GunMachines speed bolt in the past- throw it away after cutting in half in order to save someone else this trouble. You should also have your receiver examined to determine if the locking slots are in the proper position and of the proper shape (most are not) so that the bolt velocity is normalized and the impact stresses reduced to minimum. Keep a good buffer in it.

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#9 Brickyard

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 11:43 AM

To be brief and cut to the chase:

Not intending to take away from anyone's ability in the field but; call PK, put it in a box, ship it to him and relax.

If it's doable, it'll be done well.

However, please wait a few weeks. I've got one going out soon and I'd like mine to be on the list before yours.

Seriously, Paul is the one to contact.

CJR


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#10 randyron

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 12:48 PM

Contacted Merle, we will be getting it handled. Thanks guys for the input.
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#11 SecondAmend

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 02:35 PM

Re Pk's comment about the type of steel in WH receivers. I too have seen claims to the WH receivers being made of a steel and lead compound and that the receivers were made of a chrome-moly steel. Since WH guns were made over an 11 year time span, I'd guess that more than one type of steel was used. Some being more prone to cracking than others.

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#12 AZDoug

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 03:45 PM

Ira Trast swore up and down the F/A WH receivers were all 4100 series steel, when I quized him on this subject back in 1996.

Maybe somebody has access to a laser spectrometer and can have a small zap done on the inside of the receiver to find out for sure.

Doug
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#13 45wheelgun

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE (TD. @ Apr 1 2004, 10:37 AM)
RandyRon,
There is a real nice gentleman in Michigan that has a West Hurley with the same rear receiver cracking problem you described. His name is Glen Wittenberger and he is a member of the Thompson Collectors Association. If I remember correctly, his receiver cracked several times before a permanent fix could be found. I have an e-mail address for him that may still be good. If you would like it, send me an e-mail requesting it. I am sure others on the board know Glen and may have more up to date contact information. Whatever the fix it must have worked because during the last TCA show, his gun ran flawlessly. Tom

While I have not been to a TCA shoot in several years, Glen's old beat up, welded, ugly, WH seemed to win, year after year. Just goes to show that with the right shooter those bastard WH's can kick colt butt anytime. Glen is a great shot and a really nice guy.

Edited by 45wheelgun, 03 April 2004 - 03:55 PM.

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#14 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 07:33 PM

45,
You need to make up your mind. Is it the shooter or the gun? You say that it is the shooter, so how is it that a WH replica TSMG "can kick Colt butt anytime"? If Mr. Wittenburger won the competition using a Colt would you then surmize WH's were inferior shooters? It isn't the degree of accuracy that hamstrings a WH product, rather it is their unauthorized appropriation of the Thompson name and their suspect components.

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#15 Bruce L

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 08:24 PM

I've had my WH for ten years next month and it hasn't been hamstrung yet. It chugs along with the best of 'em. And yes, I recognize that is not, nor will it ever be, anything other than what it was when I bought it. But them armadillos don't know the difference!
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#16 45wheelgun

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Posted 03 April 2004 - 08:25 PM

Right on cue AF. I guess you can't see a troll until it bites you in the leg. But come on dude, it just has to get your shorts all bunched up whenever Glen wins with that old welded up WH...

Edited by 45wheelgun, 03 April 2004 - 08:28 PM.

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#17 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 11:23 AM

Phil,
I would say that there are some firearms that are indeed mystical. That is they do have a great deal of mystique. The name on the gun also has a great deal to do with some of this mystique. History has made that fact clear as mother's milk. Saturday Night Specials can be maintained to function as a shooter, but that doesn't elevate them to anthing other than an object of scorn and ridicule.
.
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#18 John Jr

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 11:10 PM

AF,

Let me tell you what your problem is, since you are obviously too dense to see it yourself. You constantly attack what other people find interesting. Be it bricks from the St. Valentines day massacre, Russell McGuire, Savage Thompsons, WH Thompsons, etc... your non-stop condescending attitude and attacks on what you don't like, believe, etc...is the problem. You have been banned from this site under at least 2 other names for these reasons. You, like the rest of us, are entitled to your own opinions. Maybe if you would contribute something other than your own twisted opinions and personal attacks against other types of Thompsons and related interests, you might not come off as such a f&%ing prick.

mad.gif
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#19 REISINGSTAR

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 06:42 AM

And to think all this started with someone wanting to fix a crack in a piece of metal?WOW. huh.gif
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#20 REISINGSTAR

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Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:45 AM

PhilOhio,
RIGHT ON! This place is the 1st ammendment in action,and a whole lot of fun too!Of course we might catch some grief if our "one brick shy of a load" happened to come from the St.Valentine's Wall(LOL) biggrin.gif
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