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Drum Mag In Canada


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#1 hughlong

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:01 PM

would importation of a US ww2 drum from canada be legal?

it was obviousloy manufactured prior to the 1994 ban?
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#2 pmlogg

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:10 PM

From a conversation with a dealer in Canada two years ago I was lead to believe that drum magazines, not altered to reduce their capacity, were illegal there.
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#3 chitowngangster

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:11 PM

From Canada's standpoint there's no problem sending prohbited stuff to the U.S. only the other way around is a big no no.(The only legal amount of rounds for a semi is 5 rds!!!!!!!).Even a ten rd drum is illegal.
Might be someone on here who knows the importation into the U.S. as i'm in Canada.

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#4 LIONHART

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 08:02 PM

Yeah, I noticed that NY "L" Drum for $500.00 on Sturmgewehr too. I wouldn't try it. Just my .02.
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#5 hughlong

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 08:11 PM

whats the law on this?
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#6 philasteen

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:07 PM

Well, it's definitely not importable unless you are a licensed importer. Magazines for machineguns are a specifically restricted item on the U.S. Munitions Import List (Item 1.B). It can be approved on Form 6 to a licensed importer but as for how difficult that is I have no idea.

Edited by philasteen, 29 April 2004 - 10:07 PM.

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#7 Ron A

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 11:49 PM

Its interesting how only a week ago a person found himself with federal agents tearing down his door for bringing in a illegal items without the proper import permits.

The fine is high, the jail time long and defense costs high even if you cop out. The costs are enough to purchase a Colt 1921.

Some one in the U.S will purchase the drum and then get a personel visit from a mail man who will give him a pair of cuffs of his own.

Its not worth the chance. Buy U.S.
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#8 Tman

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 09:12 AM

Doing some research on this end, I cannot find anything in Title 18, Title 26 or the Arms Export Control Act dealing with firearm magazines. The AECA dances around the subject with the terms 'all components and parts' under Categories I (Firearms). In Category III (Ammunition), it uses the same wording 'components, parts, accessories and attachments...'. Phil is right about the parts kits being imported with the mags. I guess the powers that be don't have a problem with it.
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#9 Ron A

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 10:36 AM

Tman - Do you think customs would let the drums in? It seems since 9/11 everything I get from overseas gets opened . I have not tried to received anything like kits or mags.

It seems the customs and post office are trying to outdo each other in finding illegal items coming into the states.

I had a box which I shipped two weeks ago opened in the local postoffice and inspected. I had shipped books by priority and it was opened and re-taped.

I live in a state in where there is no state statute on mag size or statute which make machine parts illegal.

It seems what you are saying is that its a gray area at this point -
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#10 Sig

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 04:42 PM

Ron A
Are you telling us that the Post Office is opening packages shipped within the US.
Not sure if that is legal or not, I don't think so.
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#11 LIONHART

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 04:51 PM

Oh come on. Were talking about the US Government. These people can do anything they want. Legal or Illegal.
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#12 Sig

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 05:04 PM

Lionhart
I would agree our government of the peope can ALMOST do anything they want on the "suspicion" of terriorist activity.
And the beauty of the Patriot Act is that they NEVER have to prove any real reason for their "suspicion", thus Lionhart you are right they can do anything they want. However I still do not think they have the right to inpect postal packages.
Anyone else care to chime in on this?
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#13 Ron A

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 06:16 PM


They do open packages - I went to the post office and mailed books at the book rate. After I left they opened the package and found the package contained not only several books but also one magazine. They phoned me at home and requested I come back to the post office where they stated that as the package had a magazine in addition to the books that the package couldn't go book rate and I owed more money. They then resealed the package. Their logic was that there are ads in the magazine - interesting, as the magazine was printed in 1939.

It appears postal inspectors can open any item in which they question the contents.

I not only mail, but also receive items each week in which the name to which they are addressed would indicate a firearms company. In case of the books this was not the case.

I think in a smaller community this is more apparent to the people at the post office and everyone is looking for the “big bust” I question if this would occur in a larger community.

I don’t know what its like in your area, but UPS will not let you ship a package that they don’t open, inspect and tape at their shop. Shipping guns is a real problem. They want to see your FFL – the FFL of the person to whom you are shipping the gun. Then inspect the gun, and in most cases they have no idea what they are looking at.. All the time other people are standing around wanting to see whats in your box.

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#14 craig101

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 09:10 PM

Tman- (man i always want to say T-bag from the old moonshine runner movies) LOLOL.

look in the Part 178-Commerce in firearms and ammunition in the green "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide" specifically 178.119 "importation of ammunition feeding devices.

this 178.119 mandates that a form 6 is required to import "high-cap" mags.

one of the requirements is the verification that the mag was made before 1994. and the DAMN stupid thing about it, is if you tell the import branch that it is a colt drum made in 1920 and they stopped making them in 1930 lets say, they DON'T CARE, you still need to show proof to them it is pre-ban. one of the ways is to show a receipt of purchase HAHAHA, OR send a sworn statement attesting to the fact these mags are preban. you NEED to have the seller/exporter send in the same sworn statement.

I was going to import on a form 6 some HK mags which are date stamped on the body. I still needed other verification, like the statements even thought they are date stamped.

you can get high cap mags imported on form 6s but they are a bitch, aka takes a lot of time and red tape. where do you think all the FAL and HK G3 mags come from? the G3 mags were imported in BIG numbers post 2000, i think inter-ord imported 1+ million mags. they paid like pennies for them. germany was using them as scrap metal. they could hardly give them away.

if you import these drums without a form 6 AND customs looks at the packages, they will most likely confiscate them. you won't be charged with violating the high-cap ban as eventually you could prove they are pre-1994, but you did not follow ATF rules, which calls for an approved form 6 for high-cap mags.

does US Customs open packages coming to the USA?? damn right they do, ESPECIALLY if it goes air mail. they have gotten REALLY strict on air mail stuff.

if you are asking me if you send these drums via parcel post will they make it through?? not gonna touch that one in a public forum, but let me tell you a story.

I had a licensed importer file a form 6 for 2 HK pistols in germany for me. he got the form 6 approved and sent the paperwork to my german dealer. the german guy gets his export permits and ships the pistols air mail. customs SHOULD open the package, fill out the form 6a and send the form to that ATF. when my importer gets the pistols, he needs to fill out a form 6a and send it to the ATF. the ATF checks both 6a's to make sure the serial numbers and quantity match.

well, customs never caught my pistols. they went straight to my dealer. if my dealer would not have filled in his form 6a, the ATF would have never known about my 2 pistols. customs does not catch every package.


oh and there are Drums out there. a friend of mine told me that the Gov't of Turkey was selling off a bunch of Thompsons recently. i think like 2500 Thompsons. this also included like 500+ Drums. he said the gov't would only sell in 1 lot. damn!


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#15 craig101

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 11:09 PM

phil's right, it's completely legal to import high cap mags provided you follow the procedures.

if you search the net, you will read HCI or Feinstein bitching about the high-cap mag loophole. this is what they are referring to, although it's not a loophole.
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#16 philasteen

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 07:05 AM

QUOTE (craig101 @ Apr 30 2004, 11:09 PM)
phil's right, it's completely legal to import high cap mags provided you follow the procedures.

Thanks for the backup. I know for a fact that import is OK on a Form 6 but for Thompson drums you need to go through the extra hurdles regarding lend-lease status.

Also, for the curious ones, importing without Form 6 is a felony whose jail time is equivalent to having an unregistered machinegun.
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#17 pmlogg

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 08:05 PM

As one of those living in countries where drums can still be imported I would welcome further information on the whereabouts of these Russian Colt C and L drums.

A lot of the pristine 1928A1s have recently come onto the market in Britain but as deactivated weapons - a terrible tragedy to see mint condition Thompsons butchered!
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#18 45fan

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 12:18 PM

I'll add this tidbit FWIW. I have no desire to go through the trouble of trying to legally import the drums in question. However, I did email O.G. the seller, on a lark. I specifically asked him about the legality of importing these mags into the US. He claims that while they cannot be imported as complete mags, he would disassemble and ship them in two packages--no Form 6's involved. Disassembled, they are simply "parts"--his words. If that doesn't sound fishy I don't know what does.

BTW, someone made reference to dewatted guns in Europe and elsewhere. There is a 1928A1 on Gunbroker right now that is allegedly dewatted to "European specs," to wit: the bolt has been altered and a plug welded in the barrel. Oooooh, now that's irreversible >dripping sarcasm<. The seller claims to be located in Spain. Oh, how I wish I lived in a free country where I could freely buy some of these goodies, and at reasonable prices! mad.gif

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#19 chitowngangster

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:03 PM

Sometimes i wonder if we are the free ones when it comes to certain freedoms.I see mothers in Palestine during the news chanting in the streets with a Kalashnikov.Geez i'm man and i can't even own a thompson in my country.What the f$#% is wrong with that picture??? mad.gif


Chitown.



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#20 philasteen

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE (chitowngangster @ May 2 2004, 04:03 PM)
Sometimes i wonder if we are the free ones when it comes to certain freedoms.I see mothers in Palestine during the news chanting in the streets with a Kalashnikov.Geez i'm man and i can't even own a thompson in my country.What the f$#% is wrong with that picture??? mad.gif


Chitown.

You could own a Kalashnikov if you moved to the West Bank. What are you waiting for?
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