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#1 Lancer

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 12:03 AM

Well guys, I found my Tommy. Agreed on a price. Now comes the scary part, he wants me to send a check. The dealer seems on the up and up. I have found only good things said about him on Subguns.com. He says he will start the paper work and send me a paid invoice when he receives the check. Is this the way it is normally done? It seems a bit risky.
Am I being overly cautious?

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#2 Sgt

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 12:24 AM

Lancer--
I know what you mean. I felt the same way on my first and only purchase. I called two of the seller's references and sent certified check with signature confirmation on the letter. I also made an agreement as to who would be the responsible party, should something happen to the seller, during the transfer wait. I did my purchase after seeing a few photos, but it is probably best if you can actually see the gun. Recently, I almost purchased an M1 Thompson, but since the seller was unwilling to send a picture, and I couldn't travel, I decided to pass. However, most people who handle lots of Class III stuff seem to be known in the gun community. Good luck!
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#3 colt21a

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 12:33 AM

and may your first thompson be a masculine one!!"lucca brazzi" wink!!

just get a return refund if its not what you expect..........and check those internal parts upon arrival.
good luck have fun......ron
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#4 nobra81

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 07:23 AM

Your always taking somewhat of a risk when doing a nfa transfer. The seller could screw you if he wanted. He couldn't do it but once or twice before the word got out on him. I alway like to put up half the money and send the balance when the transfer goes though. If he is in good standing with the guys on subgun he's okay.
I've only had one problem and got it straighten out. He was a local dealer who was going though a divorce. He tried to screw me but I got the weapon just took a while. Good luck. I wouldn't think you would have any trouble.

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#5 marks

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 11:15 AM

Congrats on your tommy Lancer.

You should be able to rest easy if the weapon is coming from a known and respected dealer. Even ones not well known (or maybe even new to the game) will treat you right. One nice thing about the internet is the cockroaches get exposed in this very small community quickly. Subguns.com BOI is always the first stop when dealing with someone unknown to me. Tom's site is an invaluable resource.

Regarding terms, as a dealer (although I'm not one anymore) I always required 100% funds up front for this simple reason........... It insulated my business from the folks (other dealers or individuals) that would pay the first half no problem but when the forms cleared all of a sudden they scramble and make excuses on the how and when they would get the rest of the funds to me. Granted one could always void the transfer but you don't make any money fiddle farting around over this kind of b.s., there's enough b.s as it is. I know there are plenty of folks who won't do business if it's 100% up front and I respect that. Some buyers probably didn't do business with me for that very reason, no problem here.

Something else that should be brought up more often is as a buyer, there needs to be a financial threshold where you decide whether or not your going to mail the check or buy a plane ticket and consumate the deal in person. That dollar figure is subjective and a personal thing but is something that should be considered. For example, I wouldn't fly over a 5K deal but for 10K or more I would, especially if I didn't know the sellor. It also gives the buyer a chance to inspect the weapon in person before you shake on a deal.

Just a couple rambling thoughts from the someone who use to be on the other side of the fence.

I've been pending on my tommy for 60 days. The waiting......................... is starting to drive me................. wacko.gif

marks
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#6 philasteen

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 11:29 AM

It's a reputation driven business. If the dealer is supposed to be reliable, he probably is. However, being on the subguns.com Recommended Dealer's List is not synonymous with reliable. There are many reliable dealers who should be on the list and aren't, and there are a couple of bad apples on that list who have fallen from grace.
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#7 21 smoker

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 11:33 AM

Lancer,...Congrats!!!....with any luck you will receive your Thompson for your 50..00..00.00..birthday. It`s always a leep of faith starting a NFA deal,but we all have done it... based on some info gotten here...so good luck and don`t watch the clock...it doesn`t help,I know,out. wink.gif
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#8 JimFromFL

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 07:50 PM

If he is on the "Good Guys" list on Subguns.com I would feel better too.

Here is something to think about. Since the guy is a dealer, he should be able to accept credit cards. Most dealers don't offer it because of the 3% extra charge, but if you are that concerned then offer to pay the extra 3% if he allows you to pay with your credit card.

Do the math and it comes out to $300 for a $10K item.

For some people, the $300 insurance is worth it and for others it is too much. If the deal goes bad, it is much easier to get your $10K back via the credit card then it is when the transaction is done via a Money Order.

Just my 2 cents.... and something to think about.
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#9 Paul in PA

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 05:58 PM

Privates Sales, can be handled a little different. Over the years I have owned a total of six Class three weapons. Ranging from S&W 76 to an MG-42, all C&R. They were titled to me as a private individual on a Form 4. I have sold five of them, almost all as private sales. Individual to Individual, on a C&R license.

OK, I could ask for the traditional 50% and tax stamp up front. But I feel that since the MG is still in my possession and I can always cancel the transfer, I ask for $500 to $1,000 down plus tax stamp balance on transfer.

I feel that it makes an individual rest alot easier. In addition, I usually can get a higher price since I am not selling to a Class III dealer. Remember I am not in a business, so cash flow is not the issue, nor is inventory. Yes I have my money tied up, but I don't need to replace stock and buy something else.

My purchases were as follows, one private purchase, one estate, one private purchase through a broker/Class III dealer, and three class III dealers. All were great transactions with no problems, one was in person (a class III dealer buy); all other were over the internet! The private to private was on a USGI Thompson M1A1, $500 down to start the transfer. All others were 50% down.

Of course ALL FFL apply. And YES I still own my Thompson, and NO I won't sell it. Well maybe if somebody is crazy enought to pay $20K in today's market. Hey that is what I said a few years ago at $10K level.

Paul

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#10 JimFromFL

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Paul in PA @ May 5 2004, 05:58 PM)
Well maybe if somebody is crazy enought to pay $20K in today's market.

I will pay $20K for it. Just hold it for another 5-10 years for me and I'll shoot you an e-mail. tongue.gif
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#11 John Jr

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:52 PM

I may end up solving this problem real soon for everyone that is concerned about sending thousands to someone they dont know. Ill keep you posted.

Cya

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#12 TNKen

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 10:26 AM

Don't forget that you can always use a third-party known as an escrow agent (usually an attorney) to hold the funds. Work up a written agreement that the buyer, seller and escrow agent sign. Upon the happening of certain events, the escrow agent does his job and disperses the funds. For example. Put 1/2 funds with escrow agent, file Form 4, when Form 4 clears, buyer has 10 days to put balance with the escrow agent, upon payment of balance, Seller ships to Buyer, Buyer gets 3 day non-firing inspection period, if satisfied, escrow agent disperses funds to seller. If not satisfied, transfer cancelled, funds returned to buyer, less a pre-arranged amount for taking the gun off the market for the seller. Escrow agent will usually want a small fee as well.

I have never used an escrow agent, and been lucky in all my Class III transfers (except 1). As tacky as it seems, always put the terms into writing, whether by e-mail or in writing. The one deal I did that went bad was a seller that backed out. Had a written contract on a 1919 and a Boys anti-tank rifle at a good price. Seller reniged, went to suit on a cause of action known as specific performance. Court ordered him to transfer the guns to me, and he did at the agreed price. No happy campers on the seller's side.

Typically, by the time the paperwork clears, the gun has gone up $500 to $1000 or more in value.

Good luck!

Ken
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