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Urgent Help Requested W/ Serial Number Issue


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#1 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 09:46 AM

The Savage '28A1 (S/N 334xxx) I'm buying showed up my C3 dealer yesterday. Following the serial number, the letters "NAC" are stamped. Now we all know what "NAC" normally represents, but I've never heard of any of the Numrich guns being anything other than guns assembled from original Colt receivers and parts. And their serial numbers were stamped NAC-XXXX. This is an all-Savage gun.

Does anybody have a clue to what this gun is? I'll try and post a picture later today. I'd appreciate any help/advice possible as I'm puking my cookies right now. sad.gif
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#2 sten guy

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 09:51 AM

I saw an NAC savage at knob creek in the fall. I think it was the same one that supposedly had history with the Oklahoma highway patrol.
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#3 Ron A

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 10:15 AM

I know where there is a gun just like the one you describe - the receiver is savage as is all the receiver parts - the Bbl however is smooth and the comp has a set screw in the bottom. There is no pin in the comp. The gun is light park. The gun is stamped "tommygun"

I am in the process of buying this gun. The gun has a serial # S xxxxxx NAC. The NAC is stamped very lightly following the savage serial number.

I have been told Numrich Arms put these together from parts they had and registered the guns.

I also would be interested in comments...
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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 10:28 AM

The NAC prefix are found on Colt receivers assembled and serial numbered by Numrich. The NAC suffix are found on Savage receiver guns with existing serial numbers, but could have been assembled by Numrich such as Savage 1928 S-71189NAC.
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#5 hawksnest

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 11:11 AM

Arthur: While I agree with you most of the time, I must take exception to your statement "The NAC suffix are found on Savage receiver guns with existing serial numbers, but were also assembled by Numrich such as Savage S-71189NAC" My exception to your statement that Numrich ASSEMBLED suffix NAC guns is found by examining my 1928A1 which has matching serial numbers and British proof marks. This topic has been covered before on the old board. Thanks to Lionhart, who directed me to page 24 of the book (1982) "The Thompson Submachinegun" by Roger A. Cox, where Cox states the folowing "... Also, Numrich imported large numbers of 1928A1 Thompsons from England during the 1950's and stamped the "N.A.C." logo after their serial numbers as well. Generall, the only way a collector can determine if a "N.A.C." gun is an original gun imported from Britain or a remake is by the presence of British proofs. If it is British proofed, it probably was always a complete, original gun which was imported as such by Numrich, not a parts gun." If the Thompson has a "N.A.C" prefix to the serial number the gun is assembled from parts. Also, you may recall Mr. Gordon Haagstad (spelling) wrote an article in the Thompson collector news about a NAC prefix gun he examined in the J. Curtis Earl museum and opined it was a parts gun.
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#6 gijive

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 11:19 AM

I believe Cox's book makes mention of some of these WWII variety Thompsons that were imported by Numrich in the early 1950's and marked with the NAC suffix. It may be an all original Savage made gun that saw overseas service, returned to the US, was refurbished by Numrich and sold to a law enforcement agency.

Nothing to puke about. If the receiver and grip frame serial numbers match it probably was an original gun and not made from leftover parts.
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#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 11:23 AM

Hawknest,
Well, you are of course correct, but I guess the confusion might lie with the word "assembled." Some might have been complete while others required additional componets to complete. The presence of a British proof does not necessarily mean that the gun ever left the U.S. though.

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#8 21 smoker

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 11:38 AM

Hawknest,...I agree with your take on the NAC suffix guns.I own a Savage 28,Brit proofed,1st prod run,etc. Even the buttstock swivel inlet is filled..ala British refit...it is my understanding Numrich reimported these late 40s-early50s as complete guns and had to stamp the NAC to meet import restrictions.my .02,out. wink.gif
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#9 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 11:57 AM

Now that I have started breathing again, let me first say I appreciate everyone's comments.

I'll get to see the gun tomorrow. It is my understanding that the "US Model" has not been ground off and that the gun wears the appropriate US military inspector marks. I don't know if there are any British proof marks.

My local dealer, Steave Wayman, spoke to Nick Tilota about the gun. Like yall, Nick confirmed that came through Numrich. Now this gun has matching upper and lower serial numbers. If the gun left the Savage factory as a complete gun, entered the US ordnance system, was acquired by Numrich after the war and refurbished prior to sale to police deprtment or something, then I'm fine with gun. And isn't that the most likely story. Nick apparently implied to my dealer that Numrich "assembled" these guns but I still don't think he means "assembled" in the same sense as what they did with the Colt receiver and parts. In either case, Nick didn't feel the gun's value was compromised in any way. Steave agreed.

I'll post a picture tomorrow.
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#10 Bill in VA

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 03:33 PM

FWIW, a fellow I shoot with has a NAC M1 TSMG.
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#11 John Jr

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 04:11 PM

Kyle, You will be alright. Sounds like a neat gun. We WANT PICTURES!!!!

AF

QUOTE
The presence of a British proof does not necessarily mean that the gun ever left the U.S. though.


I read that statement somewhere too, perhaps in Hill's book, but I think thats a crock of shit. One question: WHY would the US or anyone in the US stamp british proof marks on a gun (with british roll stamps, I might add)in this country that was never over there. The british stamped the guns when they were done using them and PRIOR to shipping them back. So I question the validity of the statement that there are guns that are british proofed that never left the US. I bet one of our Thompson experts saw a gun that was brit proofed and assumed it never left the country or was told it never left the country, but couldn't really prove it.
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#12 21 smoker

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:18 PM

Another point to consider about Brit proof marks...is that below the Crown is the stamp of the House and the inspector who proofed it,`House of Enfield` etc.That would seem to confirm these Thompsons were in England,my .02,out. wink.gif
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#13 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:35 PM

Hope this works...

NAC Savage

The GEG mark is there. The "flaming bomb" is in the upper left. Looks like the "RLB" is overstamped. I don't know what is below the main serial number. Any ideas?

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#14 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:36 PM

John Jr,
Yah. It is probably the fanciful tales cooked up by Ian Hogg, W.H.E. Smith, R. Cox, etc. Just because a Brit-proofed TSMG never saw the hold of a liberty ship, troop ship, or the bloomin Queen Mary, doesn't mean that the tiny character marks added on this side of the pond diminish the perceived romanticism of the gun.

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#15 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:39 PM

Here's the left side...

NAC Savage Left Side
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#16 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:41 PM

And the right side...

NAC Savage Right Side
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#17 John Jr

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:41 PM

I cant see the pictures, you want me to post what you sent Kyle?



AF, If they have brit proofs, they were in british hands. End of story.

Jr


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#18 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:44 PM

You can try John but the board won't let me into the http side.
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#19 John Jr

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:49 PM

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image


There ya go!

Jr
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#20 kyle

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 08:53 PM

Thanks John!

Okay guys...concentrate on the next to last picture. What's this guns story?

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