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#1 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 02:33 PM

Found a Colt 1921 on display today. In a sheriffs office. I am entertaining the idea of making an offer. I have no idea if it is transferrable, if it can be had by me, or anything. They let me inspect it.

user posted image

The deputy that let me handle it said it had been owned/confiscated from George Moran, as he owned property nearby. Sure....

Anyway, lets see if I can describe it. Arthur, you'll have to help me. Seemed to be in pretty good overall shape, though the buttstock relase button was gone and replaced with a screw. Nickel oiler. Matching serial numbers. 6XXX. Bbl fins are squared off. Cutts, well, I dunno what would be expected. Did have the bullet logo on one side, Diamond top. Savage nickel bolt and Blish (what does that mean?), one piece actuator. I don't recall seeing any marks on the gun, like proof marks, save for an alignment mark near the bbl and JHB. Knurling all way around; hole in the safety but not in the mag release. Flat ejector.

user posted image

Is there anything about this gun that might be gleaned from the serial number? They asked I not post the serial, and I would hate to get scooped by any of you guys;-).

What are my odds for purchasing such a weapon? I'd like to have my ducks in a row before I even make an offer. They'd probably laugh at me anyway, but it is just sitting there gathering dust.

How does one find out whether it is transferrable?
Value?
Condition?
Am I crazy?

Gotta go cut grass. Will check back later!


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#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 02:54 PM

Chris,
That sound of footsteps closing in behind you are Mike's. Hey, if this is transferable and the PD is amenable to a Mike type offer, you are in like Flint/Flynn. You would have to check ATF records to see if it qualifies, no doubt the cops have spaced any paperwork on this gun.

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#3 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 05:16 PM

Arthur:

I have laid land mines to my rear to catch Mike should he sneak up behind me (Mike, back off, OK;-). Er, what exactly is a Mike type offer? Would it be unreasonable or illadvised to offer low?

Colt21a:

Good idea.....

Both of you (and all other Colt experts): sight unseen, judging from these images, can you give me a once over on the gun?
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#4 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 05:32 PM

Oh, a few more questions:

If it is transferable, and it is out of state, and I have a C&R, any problem? Can it go from SO to private individual state to state, or does the gun have to be in the same state?

Also, is it as easy as calling the ATF and giving them the serial number? What else would they ask? Anyone have the number?
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#5 21 smoker

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 05:43 PM

Chris,..that`s an outstanding find...looks very similar to my 21#6422,probably similar production time...same controls,fine checkering on actuator,correct oiler,reverse checkering on controls,bolt and blish are replacement,actuator should be thin type,not a block like 28...good luck on purchase,out. wink.gif
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#6 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 05:48 PM

21 Smoker:

More similar production time than you think;-)

I guess it is not out of the ordinary to have some replacement parts. Actuator is correct for the gun, inasmuch as it is the flat style.
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#7 Sig

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 06:34 PM

Well Chris you obviously have everyone drooling with envy.
Gun looks great.
Good luck
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#8 LSU Tiger

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 06:52 PM

What the hell! GO FOR IT!!! biggrin.gif laugh.gif tongue.gif
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#9 LIONHART

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 07:19 PM

Had the Wood been refinished at one point? It appears there is either a Dent, or missing Wood adjacent to the end of the Buttplate. Can't really tell by the Pic Chris. Anyway, the Barrel isn't correct, and the Nickel Can is in need of an adjustment. Also, the Cutts as you described sounds to me like the Type #4, meaning WW2 Production, and the Front Sight probably is as well. What the hell, sell your Westy and buy this Colt! You will find the correct parts sooner or later. Wood appears to be all 100% authentic Colt '21.

Edited by LIONHART, 06 May 2004 - 07:24 PM.

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#10 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 07:37 PM

Can you elaborate on the bbl? It didn't look original to me. I though Colt's had rounded fins. This one was distinctly squared off. Should I be concerned about this?

Don't recall any wood issues.

Wonder why it would have WWII parts?
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#11 LIONHART

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 07:48 PM

That Colt has a complete WW2 Barrel Assembly. The Colt '21 Barrels have nice rounded Fins. Now, on earlier Guns, the Fins were thinner, the later serial # Colts will have thicker Fins. Chris, you also mentioned that the Bolt and the Bliss Lock were Savage. Perhaps the internals are Savage as well. I'm sure the Levers and Catch are authentic Colt, but please be aware, the early Savage Guns were similar, except the Checkering wasn't as fine as found on the Colt produced Models. It appears to me those Parts (Levers/Catch) in the Pic are indeed, Colt.

Edited by LIONHART, 06 May 2004 - 07:57 PM.

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#12 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:02 PM

How does this WWII stuff, then, effect the value/pedigree?
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#13 Walter63a

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:10 PM

Very nice find indeed sir! blink.gif rolleyes.gif I hope you can find a very nice, mutually agreeable price. You know you've got the fever. There is only one cure! laugh.gif Regards, Walter

P.S. I'm afraid Thomsonitis is very contagious!! biggrin.gif
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#14 LIONHART

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:12 PM

The value is effected since it has parts that aren't original to the Gun. However, those things could be taken care of by locating the right parts to restore to it's original state. You may not be able to find the parts right away, but you will....I would say the Gun would be 25-30% +/- less than an all original Colt in the same condition.
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#15 Bruce V 21/28

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:32 PM

Chris, I got my Navy Overstamp from a Sheriff's Department. They had infile the paperwork from when the gun was registered in 1968. The Sheriff told me he wasn't sure when they got the gun, the paperwork said they thought they got it in the 30's. I checked in Traci's book and the serial number shows that the gun was originally sold from Colt to the department. To make a long story short (year and a half wait) I found out about the gun; went to see it, the Chief Deputy said they wanted at least $5000.00 for the gun, I, of course said I'll take it! He said he would have to check if they could do an outright sale. Turned out, after checking with all the powers to be the gun had to be declared surpluss and then put out for bid. Me and a friend bought two Colt Navy Overstamps and two M-3 Grease Guns on a sealed bid, We ended up paying more than the 5K but got a great deal anyway. BTW both Thompsons had the original Rusco tan canvas cases and four Colt XX double patten mags. The drums that came with the guns? Nobody knows what happened to them.
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#16 Tman

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:49 PM

Chris,
Nice find. To acertain if the gun is on the registry and if it is transferable, have the folks at the department call the local ATF office and have them run an NFA query on the gun. I do it all the time for departments out here. Heck, have them call me and I'll do it. Down side is that I can't post the findings here due to it being a tax issue. I can only report to the department. PM me with the details if that's OK with the folks your dealing with.
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#17 gijive

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 09:11 PM

Hi Chris,

Nice gun. Arthur and Lionhart are correct, there are some replacement parts on it. The barrel and Cutts compensator are definitely WWII vintage, so someone either shot out the old barrel or it had a bulge. The wood isn't that bad, it could be cleaned and linseed oiled and it would look better. You definitely wouldn't want to sand or refinish it. See if the butt stock has the upside down anchor at the front end. If it doesn't the wood may have been refinished at some point. I don't think so though, it looks pretty original, just dirty from oil and neglect.

Obviously the internals have been replaced, with the exception of the actuator, which you say is a 1921 type. It probably then still has the original buffer and pilot system.

It definitely would be worth looking into to see if it's properly registered. I agree with the others, if they accept your offer, sell the West Hurley and buy that gun! It will definitely appreciate more in value, plus it's got some history behind it.
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#18 The1930sRust

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 09:26 PM

I did look for the Navy anchor, and recall seeing what I thought was it (in the right place anyway). It does have the proper buffer system, two piece, with buffer disks.

Tman:

So, I can't call and check on the serial number? It has to be someone from the department I guess...
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#19 full auto 45

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 06:50 AM

Nice find there Chris. Let us all know what you find out. Don't worry I won't out bid you for it! I'm still working the departments for the ones I'm after. Just don't rush them to much, they may start to feel the greed. Keep us posted.
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#20 giantpanda4

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Posted 07 May 2004 - 07:35 AM

Chris,

Try this idea for determining a price.... You could have bought that 1921 set of parts that was just sold for $6000 (too much, I think) on subguns (this would allow you to make the gun all original). Add that to the cost of what you will pay for the gun, and see if that total is under - say $20K - though Artie would say that is too low, but I think it is the going rate.

Buy it immediatly, The great thing about it is you can go shoot it now! Screw getting it original right away, wait for the right price and get the 1921 parts later piece by piece. You got the hard part, enjoy shooting it! You will never wear out the reciever!

And when/if you do get tired of it.... call me! laugh.gif
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