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Tracing My M1a1


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#1 ppk

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:29 PM

I just bought an M1A1 -AOC- in South America....
Pictures available.
Single and Full-Auto mode.
In perfect condition.
Understand my govmt here bought a few M1A1 in the 50's and the guns were kept idle in a warehouse for decades..
I would like to trace any history linked to the weapon.
Is that at all possible ?
Any readers may have a way to provide me some extra info. e.g. manufacture date, export info, or any information at all ??
Appreciated.
Serial Number is 180979

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#2 The1930sRust

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:40 PM

PPK:

Welcome! I am sure others will chime in with a lot of the information you are looking for, but an excellent resource for your gun is American Thunder. There is a link to the book pinned at the very top of the forum. I think the new copies are sold out, but they turn up now an then on eBay and some other gun parts dealers stock them. Congrats on the purchase!
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#3 hawksnest

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:28 PM

ppk: Welcome to the board. American Thunder is a great resource and I also recommend you buy a copy. Until you have had the opportunity to read the book we can answer some of your questions. please describe the markings on the receiver of your Thompson. What is on the underside just behind where the barrel and the receiver join? Is it the letter "S" or the letters "AOC"? Does the gun say "U.S. Property" on top? Which way is the "US" facing? What are the marks on the left side of the receiver? On the right side? Any marks where the barrel joins the receiver? Please remove the buttstock from the gun. Is there a serial number on the Trigger Lower frame? Does the bolt have a fixed or movable firing pin? Please descibe the rear sight. Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted your pictures for us to appreciate.
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#4 ppk

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:32 PM

How can I post my picturs on this forum ?
I do have some in my PC here.
Tks.
Else, I would then have to check the gun later tonight at home..

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#5 The1930sRust

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:28 PM

PPK:

In order to post images, you have to have previously posted the images at some web hosting site. Once you have an http address, you can use the code button http:// at the top of the message window.
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#6 ppk

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 02:49 PM

Have posted a gallery via http://photos.yahoo.com/gft804
These are some pics I took the day I bought it..
Maybe you can give me some hints with the image..
The1930sRust, I will see that i buy the book American Thunder. However, remember I live in South America, so it might take a while..
Perhaps you can quickly flip through the pages and find out wheter ECUADOR (Republic of Ecuador) is listed there as a country who bought M1's back in the 40's or 50's.
I do have some other automatic weapons, such as AK47, Samopal 25, Astra 9mm; but my favorite child is of course now my M1A1....
Gracias. (look forward to hear more from any of you)...

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#7 ppk

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 10:30 AM

New pics have been posted via http://photos.yahoo.com/gft804.
I fired some 300 rounds yday, with not a single flaw/problem.
Both semi and auto runs smoothly and marvelously.
I believe the rate of fire of my gun to be at ca. 600 RPM.
The letter "S" is shown on the gun.
There is NO "US Property" markign at all on it.
S/N on lower trigger frame is also 180979
Marking on left side GEG or GFC (same can be seen on the above link).
Would really appreciate to know if any of you can give me a hint on this marking(s) and wheter Ecuador shows as a country who officialy bought TMSG...
Tks a lot..

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#8 TSMG28

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 11:58 AM

PPK,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Thompson owners! Once the Thompson bug bites, you are infected forever. biggrin.gif

The GEG stamping is for George E. Goll, the Auto-Ordnance civilian inspector that worked with Savage. That plus the S indicates that your weapon was manufactured by Savage Arms under contract to Auto-Ordnance.

American Thunder is an excellent reference, but it does not include what countries received Thompsons before, during or after WWII, so I can't help you on that issue. I highly recommend the book, but I believe Frank has sold out of the copies he had. If you don't want to try eBay, you can try www.ohioordnanceworks.com. Click on the BOOKS link on the left side of the screen. I believe they still have copies available.

You appear to have a standard M1A1 with the addition of the front barrel band for additional support of the front grip.

Enjoy your find and keep it safe!

Roger
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#9 hawksnest

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 04:22 PM

Very nice. In addition to Two (2) "GEG"s in two circles on the left front of the receiver I believe I can make out other faint initials. "FJA" would stand for Frank J. Atwood. "RLB" would stand for Ray L. Bowlin.

What are the marks on the underside of the trigger frame just in front of the grip? I can't make it out in the picture.
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#10 ppk

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 09:14 AM

TSMG, hawksnest, thanks for the observation and clarification..
Hawksnest, the marks underside of the trigger frame is the S/N 180979.
I keep wondering how this Thompson found its way down to my country here, how and when ....
I do not recall having ever seen any military or police here armed with TMSG (in fact I do not recall having ever seen a Thompson in the hands of govt agents (military included) in any SouthAmerican country. (not even in old pictures or history books).
I did call Kahr Arms on the phone yday and asked them to query the S/N of the weapon in their system -maybe something popped up-, but no results.
Would there be a party where I can call / mail who may keep records by S/N of all TMSG (or at least the M1A1 series) and all history (at least within the USA) may be provided ?

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#11 Mike45

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 01:09 PM

PPK, I think that you will have a hard time tracing your guns history, unless your govt.has some records to be found. As for mfg.date, it was probably made in Oct. 42. by Savage, it is likely in orig.cond. due to fact of matching # on trigger frame. Most guns rebuilt after WW2 were not put back together with #s matching.
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#12 ppk

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 05:08 PM

Again, thanks for the input received.
It has been really valuable for me.
Should you be needing any tip, etc on Ecuador, Southamerica, feel free to contact me down here
gft804@yahoo.com
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#13 ppk

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 04:02 PM

Mr expert readers.
I have an issue puzzling me for the last few days. The TSMG I bought is the first U.S. ex-military weapon I have. (I am honestly more of a fan for european/german guns military and non military).
Whereas the denomination of e.g. german military weapons has an "understandble patterns". e.g MP38 (Maschinen Pistole 1938) and MG-42, and P-08, G-43, etc, etc; the USA designation puzzles me...
Anyone of you experts can tell me why the TMSG desingation is e.g. "M1" and/or M1A1 (the mechanical difference between them I know). I just need to know who/why/how the ordnance department chose the "M" designation..
It also puzzles me to see that the Garand rifle is also an "M1", (so is the Abrams Tank) -and maybe some other weapons too.
Does this follow a designation pattern ? E.g does the "M" stand in for an abbreviation or somehting ? (for the TMSG refering to what ?? and for the Garand "" and for the Abrams ?/
That would be nice for me to know / understand.
Thank you
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