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Metal Spare Parts Boxes And Canvas Parts Envelopes


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#1 The Moor

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:03 PM

Trying to find information on the metal spare parts boxes and Mills and Rusco canvas parts envelopes. Not much detail in Mr. Hill's book and I haven't found anything in Mr. Innamico's book. Some questions that keep coming to mind?
Why is there no mention of the canvas spare parts envelopes in any of the A O catalogs?
The metal spare parts boxes are advertised in the 1936 catalog, I'm not sure about the 1929 edition as I don't have one. No mention in the earlier catalogs that I can find. So were the metal spare parts boxes made in the 1930s?
Were the canvas spare parts envelopes made before the metal boxes or at about the same time?
The canvas spare parts envelopes are marked with the manufacturer. Who made the metal boxes?
How many metal boxes were made?

Any details on these elusive items would be appreciated.

I have heard that the metal boxes have no markings on them. Why doesn't someone make a nice reproduction, marked to indicate that it is a reproduction? I have seen presentation metal boxes that are identical to the original parts boxes with the exception that they look to be about 1" too wide and are made of stainless steel rather than sheet metal so there has got to be a company that can make these. A nice (marked) reproduction, maybe even made by the decendants of the original manufacturer, wouldn't devalue the originals but would give most collectors an opportunity to have a proper place to put some spare parts. I store my shot mag in the lid of my FBI case and it fits perfectly but I would rather have a parts box there. Seems that even if you wanted to pay the price for an original there are not any available.

What are others' feelings on this? Enough interest to investigate having some of these made?

Rob
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#2 Two-Bit

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:19 PM

If you ever find an original metal box to be copied, there is a wizard out in North Hollywood, California that can reproduce them so perfectly that you would swear that they are NOS. His name is Jack Brink. The company is METAL FORM PRODUCTS. E-Mail jlbrink@compuserve.com . I've done business with him for many years and he's the best around.

Two-Bit
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#3 The Moor

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:35 PM

Appreciate the info. Would he really need an original box to make a decent reproduction? If some good/detailed pictures with accurate dimensions and material description could be provided, could he make the reproduction? And I would want to be sure that he marked/stamped in some way to identify it as a reproduction. This marking/stamping could be small and placed where it would not be readily noticeable but would have to be such that it could not be removed without being obvious. Another question would be the minimum order quantity for him to set up his presses and other tools to make them.
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#4 LIONHART

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 07:09 PM

I hear there MAY be a reproduction Metal Parts Box introduced around November or December. Thats all I can say about it now. No, I don't know the price either. Once I find out more, I'll clue you all in.
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#5 The Moor

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:25 AM

Sounds encouraging Lionhart. I hope that (if someone makes them) they remember to mark the boxes in some way. Would be a shame for fake parts boxes to start showing up with authentic prices. Please keep me/us informed.

P.S. The 1928 wood set is growing on me more and more every day. It is a very nice set of wood and looks good on the Thompson as well.
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#6 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 12:50 PM

The Moor,
Yes. The encouragement of reproductions of Colt TSMG accessories does make one queasy. Since these type of parts are not needed as replacements for broken pieces that have to do with the function of the TSMG, I hope that if people are going to go ahead and produce them anyway, that they are easily distinguishable from originals.

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#7 Two-Bit

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:11 PM

The Moor,

Jack Brink can make whatever you want from a drawing, just be sure to specify the gauge of metal that it needs to be produced from. Also, he will be happy to mark them in whatever way you wish to denote that they are not "originals". He's very sensitive to the problem in the antique market where the rip off artists are continually trying to pass off cheap crap to the unsuspecting novice. Jack truly will make you the highest quality metal products that you could find anywhere. I'm sure that he would be happy to give you a quote on anything from one to a thousand units. Just tell him "Two-Bit" sent you!

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#8 The Moor

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 04:17 AM

Two Bit,
I don't know how much interest there is but I sure would like to give it a try, especially since there is not a minimum quantity requirement.

I have some general dimensions and few "not to good" pictures. What I need is exact dimensions and some detailed photos from all angles, inside and outside. I have access to several engineers and CAD equipment. Is there anyone here who would be willing to provide some detailed pictures and dimensions?

As far as markings, I think a small hole (not large enough for any parts to pass through) in addition to a date (2003, etc.) on the bottom would be sufficient to prevent any ebay bandits from trying to sell as original. Also, I would only want to have enough made for those collectors who request one. As this accessory would only be appropriate for Colt Thompsons, I suspect that number would be small.

If someone would be willing to provide the needed information on the
box I am willing to do the leg work and provide the funds to get a few of these made.

Rob
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#9 gijive

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 06:18 AM

Rob,

I'm going to Tracie Hill's Thompson Show and Shoot next week in Ohio. Last year Tracie mentioned a metal box that was similar in dimension to the original spare parts boxes. I wasn't paying close attention to his source, I was too enamored by his Thompson collection.

I will get the dimemsions for you next week from an original or ask him about his source for the similar metal boxes.
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#10 The Moor

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 10:40 AM

G.I.,

That would be very helpful. Other info that I'm sure will be needed is the gage of the metal and how it is finished (blued, painted, etc.).
Some detailed pictures will also be needed so that the hinges, seal lip and closure latch can be replicated and attached properly.

Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob
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#11 gijive

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 05:36 PM

Rob,

I have a macro capability on my digital camera. I will take some detailed pictures for you. I am looking for a good reproduction myself for a police case. Talk to you in a week or so.

BTW, I believe the ones I saw last year were blued steel. I'll get detailed information this year.
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#12 Grumpy

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 06:24 PM

Rob,
I'd take one or two of the repro boxes. Need one for my FBI case.

Bill
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#13 The Moor

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 02:51 AM

Grumpy,

I plan to contact Mr. Brink next week to see if he is willing to accept the project and to ascertain what resources he will need if he is agreeable to build the boxes. With the small amount of info that I have and with the pictures and specifications that gijive plans to obtain, I should be able to get some CAD drawings made. However, if anyone else would like to provide measurements and/or pictures of an actual box, this would be great. When making drawings, there is never too much information.

I'll try to keep everyone informed of the progress.

Rob
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#14 Two-Bit

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 09:07 AM

The Moor,

If you would like to talk with Jack Brink by telephone, his number at Metal Form Products is (818) 764-2680. Good luck with your project.

Two-Bit
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#15 chopper21

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 08:38 PM

Add me to the list of interested parties for any of the reproduction spare parts kits mentioned in the above messages!
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#16 The Moor

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:52 PM

I talked to Mr. Brink today. I mentioned Two-Bit, introduced myself and explained the project. I told him that I hoped to be able to supply him some drawings and some detailed photos in the next few weeks. Mr. Brink was very positive about the possibility of trying to make the boxes. I have his contact information and will now wait for the needed specifications and pictures.

I had my CAD operator make a rough sketch of the box in three views. We only had the picture from Mr. Hill's book and a picture from a 1936 catalog to work with. With this file he can add, delete, dimension, etc. as the data becomes available. Anyone who has dimensions, photos, etc. that they can share, would be appreciated. Also I would like ideas and opinions on a marking to distinguish the reproduction from the original. but still leave the reproduction in a desirable condition.

Rob
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#17 PK.

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 07:37 AM

Just have him press his name, city and state into the bottom; not visible unless open and empty and about impossible to remove inconspicuously.
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#18 LIONHART

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 03:33 PM

If it were me, I would just have a single letter stamped in the inside near one of the corners. Should do the job just fine. My .02 FWIW
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#19 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 22 August 2003 - 05:26 PM

Rob,
If the original idea was to have a replica of the original spare parts box to complete a Police/FBI case, then I would say that whatever markings applied should be easily discovered by any observer, but not so obtrusive as to ruin the effect. It should not be an easy task for someone to remove the mark in order to pass the box off as original
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#20 gijive

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 01:10 PM

Rob,

Due to the demands on his time by guests at the show, I was unable to get Tracie Hill to remove one of his spare parts gets from its display case for measurement purposes. The best I could do was get a picture while the kit was in a rotating display case. I know this won't help too much but it will give you a general overall view.

I'll send a copy of the photo by private email. Maybe we can get the dimensions by contacting him at a less busy time.
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