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Spare Parts Box


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#21 Melvin

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 07:32 PM

Is it real or is it memorx. Yes the spare parts box looks great . And for most of us who do not have a real one it is a chance to own a piece of Thompson history . According to Roger Cox's 1977 sales add he calls it the rarest accessory . And at $275 a real steal or is it ???. To night I spoke to a fellow collector who just got his and the sad point is, he also has a mint original one . He said they look the same a very slight differance in the finish on the inside .
In my opion Gordon should have put a mark , stamp, letter or somthing to let it be known that is a reproduction because that is what it is and that is OK. But next month or next year some one will try to pass it of as the real deal . So how would feel if had an original you thought was worth big bucks and then these came along.
And by the way I have a repro M1 Thompson and I have never tried to pass it off as a prototype ,one of a kind or otherwise. The guy I bought it from sold it to me as one of four very rare etc . It was my 1st Thompson he never said reproduction . But he did say {Chasen} and that it what it is. I always have it on dispay in Ohio so please stop and tahe a look at it.
Ron I thnk it is a sad day for true collectors when things like this happen.
Chuck

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#22 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:03 PM

Chuck,
Your point is well taken. GH should have stamped his moniker somewhere on the box cause as sure as god made little green apples some benighted putz at a gun show will indeed pass it off as the real McCoy. But I guess it is a nice accessory to put in a replica Police/FBI case, along with the replica brass rod, replica Cutts, replica wood, and replica receiver. As Ron says, 20-years from now it will all be FUBAR anyway.

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#23 Melvin

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:18 PM

Ron that is my point If you have somthing that 20 people want. And there is one or two that come up for sale every year or two so what. In my book it's great for the person who has it in his collection and sad for the guy who does not but that is life. In my book that is what collecting is all about

No matter how I look at it it should be marked in some fashion if not it diminishes what collecting is all about.
Chuck
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#24 Tommygun

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:25 PM

If you duplicate currency, it is called forgery. If you precisely duplicate a spare parts box, is it a replica or is it forgery ??

A small size change, or a dated stamp would have been the ethical way to manufacture the boxes.

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#25 John Jr

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 10:46 PM

I don’t know Old Gordon, but if I were he, I would have done one VERY simple thing. I would have put serial numbers on each and every box and limited the production to around 500. When those were sold, that would be it. Just like he did his Colt book.

You run into the same thing when it comes to reproduced barrels and other unmarked "COLT" parts. Big problem for collectors.

As you folks know, I would not pay any extra for the word colt. These little tin boxes are worth what a buyer will pay for them. Original or not, to me I would not pay $5.00 for one. But that’s me. Colt collectors are in a class by themselves and always have been. I have respect for this and even understand it to a certain degree.

You guys are right, there will be some greasy low life at a gun show pass a reproduction tin Gordo box off as an original and a buyer will get screwed. It will happen. That’s not Gordon's fault, that's the greasy gun show pricks fault. Gordon could have helped to prevent it, but you can’t blame him for following his hobby and dream.

I am sure that the cost to reproduce this tin box cost a lot of money, don't get me wrong, but you have to admit this man was following a hobby and passion and is NOT out to make any real money.

Who originally manufactured the "ORIGINAL" tin spare parts box?

Jr

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#26 The Moor

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 04:13 AM

Wonder why we didn't see similar posts when IMA introduced their canvas gun cases? My guess is because you can readily tell the difference between the IMA case and an original. Yet there are still bandits even yet trying to sell the IMA case as an original. My point is that regardless if Gordon had made a close reproduction versus an exact duplicate there would still be some bandit that would try to pass it off as original. So why not go ahead and make it right. Also be aware that the duplicate boxes are numbered and there is more than likely a record of who they went to. The number is not on the metal box itself but on the cardboard shipping container. It is also marked with the year of production (2004).
Maybe if record had been made of all of the originals before the duplicate box was introduced there would be less concern with this. The record/list, after all, would be very short.
The duplicate boxes in no way reduce the originality of the original boxes. The collectors who have the originals know what they have. They were not selling these kits before the duplicates were introduced and I'll bet they won't be selling them now (if I am wrong and there is someone who wants to sell their original kit, let me know).
Now that the duplicates are out, there seems to be some concern that the originals might not be worth "big bucks"? The value of an original kit to a real collector is not measured in "big bucks". They won't sell them for ANY price. Not for $25 and not for $5000. Hell, no originals were for sale before the duplicates were introduced, why would a collector want to sell his original now?
However, suspose a collector had a couple of originals and wanted to sell one of them. What effect will the presence of the duplicate boxes have on his sale? This is not going to be as easy as it was before and he is not going to get the small fortune that he might have gotten before. I suspect that if he can convince the buyer that the kit is original (which should not be that difficult if he is honest) he will still fetch a fair and reasonable sum for it. The buyer, if he is a real collector and who has been looking for an original kit for years, will treasure his original kit and will not sell it for $25 or for $5000, regardless of what he paid for it.

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#27 aut-ord-co

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 03:57 PM


I agree with Melvin, Arthur and Tommygun about some type of ID stamp. Once someone "ages" one of the boxes, how are you going to tell it from an original if you haven't seen but a handful over many years?

And I agree with 'The Moor' about "the duplicates not reducing the originality of the originals" but isn’t this a part of the collector market whether we like it or not. Paintings have been duplicated going way back. Whenever a particular item grows in demand and then goes into that upward spiral of value, it is more than likely subject to first, reduced grading standards then second, the probability of knock off.

Board guys have talked about Vettes before. You can buy an increasingly wide variety of replacement parts for them. When you bought that sharp 1966, 427 coupe last year that was close to mint, was it really? Or was it a burned out wreck eight years ago and brought back, not with NOS (new old stock) parts but with brand new replacements. It still cost you over 50k or whatever. Did you know? Do you care? The fever (greed) is running high! Some collectors do and some could care less. You got one. Check it off. What’s next on the list?

Numismatics, antiques, watches, hell, even Pokemon was getting knocked off at their peak. As collectors, it makes the hunt (for original stuff) more difficult but sometimes...the replacement “fills the hole” and maybe our "thirst" until an original can be found, if ever.

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#28 LIONHART

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 08:30 PM

If you don't like it, don't buy one, and if you do, put your own mark on it. And to even suggest Gordon is in some way dishonest and unethical, IS unacceptable. I just can't believe it. There aren't very many folks producing GOOD quality items for the Thompson Community, and when someone doe's, sooner or later he's rediculed for it.
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#29 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 09:19 PM

Devlin,
If GH said he would now stamp his initials or number the boxes would you send yours back (S/H reimbursed by GH), for that application? Had he marked them accordingly to begin with would you have bought it? It is not that GH is dishonest, but some individuals whom the boxes find their way to may not have GH's good intentions.

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#30 LIONHART

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 10:16 PM

Phil, you asked whether or not, I would crank out Stocks and sell them as real. Of course I wouldn't. Gordon isn't producing Boxes and selling them as originals either. From readiing your above post, it's my understanding that everyone in your opinion that has aquired one of these Boxes are bad or dishonest for not stamping replica (Or any kind of identifying mark) on their boxes? You stated where you stood on this topic earlier on in the thread, but decided to continue. Everyone I'm sure, read your opinion, and there was no need for further redicule. Nor Sir, have I ever sold anything that was not as I described it to be. . Arthur, no I would not send mine back to Gordon if he offered to stamp them. Why? They wouldn't be a true replica of an original, thus why would I want one?
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#31 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE
I would not send mine back to Gordon if he offered to stamp them. Why? They wouldn't be a true replica of an original, thus why would I want one?


Devlin,
Well, if you already know that it is a replica, and you would never sell it as an original, how would some unobtrusive mark made by the manufacturer detract from the box's intended purpose which is to fill the space in a police/FBI case? I mean you were selling a Colt 1921 buttstock and hardware without an anchor or nickel release latch. Since I assume you bought that stock in that condition, absolute authenticity is not a prerequsit for your collecting purposes.

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#32 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:30 PM

Ron,
Since GH is making a deal on the purchase of more than one it doesn't seem likely that he only turned out 10 of them. That would not even make it worthwhile for the manufacturer on that limited basis. He would surely make an amount approaching the number of serial number books he put out which must be over 200 copies, or else why contact all those who own his books never mind advertising on the boards and elsewhere?

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#33 Z3BigDaddy

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:35 PM

I wasn't really interested in one of these.... but if it pisses off m/b member #122 I might just do it for the entertainment value alone..... rolleyes.gif
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#34 LIONHART

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:55 PM

Arthur, that Colt 1928 Stock was/is and always will remain 100% authentic. Indeed, it had been refinished, and was advertised as such. Yes, I purchased that Stock as being refinished, and advertised it in the exact same condition as I received it. You say authenticy is not prerequsit to my collecting, but I assure you it is. If I pay for an Original in Original Condition, I expect it to be that way. If an item has been restored, that's fine too. When I sell something, I state with 100% honesty the conditon of said item. I've owned many Colt Stocks, I know what is authentic, and what is not. That Stock Latch was probably blued at one time or another (Indeed, they can be blued) I stated the Anchor was pretty much gone due to the refinishing that the Stock received. That Stock Arthur, being refinished, was priced accordingly. I have dealed with quite a few folks from this Forum and elsewhere, with no complaints whatsoever.
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#35 full auto 45

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 08:03 AM

Here, Here Murray and Ron! I know all about small production tooling. Sometimes your lucky if you break even on those things. To those out there that bitch and piss and moan about the repro box, piss off and don't buy it. I'll buy one. Hell I may buy 2. They'll look great in my REPRODUCTION FBI case! Gordon is a great guy. At least he's doing something we wish we would of thought of years ago. And they are being made in the USA, are those IMA 1921 carry case/ holsters?
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#36 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 10:26 AM

Murray,
Since you have GH's repro box, could you elaborate on the differences from the original that would negate the addition of a manufacturer's mark?

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#37 The Moor

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 11:24 AM

Arthur: I don't think that the difference is there to negate the addition of a manufacturer's mark. They are none-the-less there.

Murray: In veiw of recent remarks, I would leave the decision to divulge this information to Mr. Herigstad. Or for the observant individual to find. It appears that most (not all) of the guys doing the complaining have original boxes.
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#38 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE
My point is that regardless if Gordon had made a close reproduction versus an exact duplicate there would still be some bandit that would try to pass it off as original. So why not go ahead and make it right.


The Moor,
First you state that the box is an "exact" duplicate, but now you say it has noticeable differences from the original. Seems contradictory? I can't imagine the possible harm in divulging what these differences are. Do you take issue with Devlin posting the images of GH's box without his permission? If you have his box and realize the differences but prefer to remain mute is one thing. It is an entirely different matter to advise others to also keep the secret like it was "Operation Overlord." This type of censorship appears counter productive for a TSMG info board.

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#39 Randy Lish

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 12:22 PM

Geez, with some of the lynch mob mentality being expessed here toward Gordon you would not think that some of these members owned fully automatic firearms. If all of the CLEO's that have signed off our forms to own these weapons suddenly adopted this " What If " attitude, we would be S*** out of luck when it came to getting that formed signed.
" I'm sorry Mr. Smith, you might commit a crime with this weapon or someone might steal it from you and commit a crime with it, etc., etc........."
It's that " What If " mentality that has caused so much chaos for gun owners in this country and to apply that belief system to someone like Gordon Herigstad for the spare parts boxes is one of the most bizarre things I have witnessed on this board. To make personal attacks by attaching drug dealing, forgery and fraud innuendos is something that could be expected from Hillary Clinton and that crowd, but from this group?
One can only hope that cooler heads and reason will prevail on this issue.
When John Thompson's weapon was first introduced, the press had a field day with him. His original intentions for this firearm were honorable, good and true, yet the press labeled his design as a " Diabolical engine of death " and persecuted him for making such a terrible thing. Typical " What If " thinking and yet this board, which holds the Thompson Submachine Gun and all it's related items on a pedestal, have some who would apply that belief system towards Gordon Herigstad and his little metal boxes......................? How sad.
Randy

P.S. I agree with you Murray............... mad.gif
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#40 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 03:38 PM

Murray,
You were undoubtedly one of those GH consulted about leaving a mark on the box. What was your take on that idea? Did you ever find a NZ buyer for your Irish Sword?

To be, nor not to be; that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to leave box marked
Or to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged collectors

Sorry Bill.

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