
Spare Parts Box
#21
Posted 26 May 2004 - 07:32 PM
In my opion Gordon should have put a mark , stamp, letter or somthing to let it be known that is a reproduction because that is what it is and that is OK. But next month or next year some one will try to pass it of as the real deal . So how would feel if had an original you thought was worth big bucks and then these came along.
And by the way I have a repro M1 Thompson and I have never tried to pass it off as a prototype ,one of a kind or otherwise. The guy I bought it from sold it to me as one of four very rare etc . It was my 1st Thompson he never said reproduction . But he did say {Chasen} and that it what it is. I always have it on dispay in Ohio so please stop and tahe a look at it.
Ron I thnk it is a sad day for true collectors when things like this happen.
Chuck
#22
Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:03 PM
Your point is well taken. GH should have stamped his moniker somewhere on the box cause as sure as god made little green apples some benighted putz at a gun show will indeed pass it off as the real McCoy. But I guess it is a nice accessory to put in a replica Police/FBI case, along with the replica brass rod, replica Cutts, replica wood, and replica receiver. As Ron says, 20-years from now it will all be FUBAR anyway.
#23
Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:18 PM
No matter how I look at it it should be marked in some fashion if not it diminishes what collecting is all about.
Chuck
#24
Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:25 PM
A small size change, or a dated stamp would have been the ethical way to manufacture the boxes.
Tommygun
#25
Posted 26 May 2004 - 10:46 PM
You run into the same thing when it comes to reproduced barrels and other unmarked "COLT" parts. Big problem for collectors.
As you folks know, I would not pay any extra for the word colt. These little tin boxes are worth what a buyer will pay for them. Original or not, to me I would not pay $5.00 for one. But that’s me. Colt collectors are in a class by themselves and always have been. I have respect for this and even understand it to a certain degree.
You guys are right, there will be some greasy low life at a gun show pass a reproduction tin Gordo box off as an original and a buyer will get screwed. It will happen. That’s not Gordon's fault, that's the greasy gun show pricks fault. Gordon could have helped to prevent it, but you can’t blame him for following his hobby and dream.
I am sure that the cost to reproduce this tin box cost a lot of money, don't get me wrong, but you have to admit this man was following a hobby and passion and is NOT out to make any real money.
Who originally manufactured the "ORIGINAL" tin spare parts box?
Jr
#26
Posted 27 May 2004 - 04:13 AM
Maybe if record had been made of all of the originals before the duplicate box was introduced there would be less concern with this. The record/list, after all, would be very short.
The duplicate boxes in no way reduce the originality of the original boxes. The collectors who have the originals know what they have. They were not selling these kits before the duplicates were introduced and I'll bet they won't be selling them now (if I am wrong and there is someone who wants to sell their original kit, let me know).
Now that the duplicates are out, there seems to be some concern that the originals might not be worth "big bucks"? The value of an original kit to a real collector is not measured in "big bucks". They won't sell them for ANY price. Not for $25 and not for $5000. Hell, no originals were for sale before the duplicates were introduced, why would a collector want to sell his original now?
However, suspose a collector had a couple of originals and wanted to sell one of them. What effect will the presence of the duplicate boxes have on his sale? This is not going to be as easy as it was before and he is not going to get the small fortune that he might have gotten before. I suspect that if he can convince the buyer that the kit is original (which should not be that difficult if he is honest) he will still fetch a fair and reasonable sum for it. The buyer, if he is a real collector and who has been looking for an original kit for years, will treasure his original kit and will not sell it for $25 or for $5000, regardless of what he paid for it.
#27
Posted 27 May 2004 - 03:57 PM
I agree with Melvin, Arthur and Tommygun about some type of ID stamp. Once someone "ages" one of the boxes, how are you going to tell it from an original if you haven't seen but a handful over many years?
And I agree with 'The Moor' about "the duplicates not reducing the originality of the originals" but isn’t this a part of the collector market whether we like it or not. Paintings have been duplicated going way back. Whenever a particular item grows in demand and then goes into that upward spiral of value, it is more than likely subject to first, reduced grading standards then second, the probability of knock off.
Board guys have talked about Vettes before. You can buy an increasingly wide variety of replacement parts for them. When you bought that sharp 1966, 427 coupe last year that was close to mint, was it really? Or was it a burned out wreck eight years ago and brought back, not with NOS (new old stock) parts but with brand new replacements. It still cost you over 50k or whatever. Did you know? Do you care? The fever (greed) is running high! Some collectors do and some could care less. You got one. Check it off. What’s next on the list?
Numismatics, antiques, watches, hell, even Pokemon was getting knocked off at their peak. As collectors, it makes the hunt (for original stuff) more difficult but sometimes...the replacement “fills the hole” and maybe our "thirst" until an original can be found, if ever.
#28
Posted 27 May 2004 - 08:30 PM
#29
Posted 27 May 2004 - 09:19 PM
If GH said he would now stamp his initials or number the boxes would you send yours back (S/H reimbursed by GH), for that application? Had he marked them accordingly to begin with would you have bought it? It is not that GH is dishonest, but some individuals whom the boxes find their way to may not have GH's good intentions.
#30
Posted 27 May 2004 - 10:16 PM
#31
Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:23 PM
QUOTE |
I would not send mine back to Gordon if he offered to stamp them. Why? They wouldn't be a true replica of an original, thus why would I want one? |
Devlin,
Well, if you already know that it is a replica, and you would never sell it as an original, how would some unobtrusive mark made by the manufacturer detract from the box's intended purpose which is to fill the space in a police/FBI case? I mean you were selling a Colt 1921 buttstock and hardware without an anchor or nickel release latch. Since I assume you bought that stock in that condition, absolute authenticity is not a prerequsit for your collecting purposes.
#32
Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:30 PM
Since GH is making a deal on the purchase of more than one it doesn't seem likely that he only turned out 10 of them. That would not even make it worthwhile for the manufacturer on that limited basis. He would surely make an amount approaching the number of serial number books he put out which must be over 200 copies, or else why contact all those who own his books never mind advertising on the boards and elsewhere?
#33
Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:35 PM

#34
Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:55 PM
#35
Posted 28 May 2004 - 08:03 AM
#36
Posted 28 May 2004 - 10:26 AM
Since you have GH's repro box, could you elaborate on the differences from the original that would negate the addition of a manufacturer's mark?
#37
Posted 28 May 2004 - 11:24 AM
Murray: In veiw of recent remarks, I would leave the decision to divulge this information to Mr. Herigstad. Or for the observant individual to find. It appears that most (not all) of the guys doing the complaining have original boxes.
#38
Posted 28 May 2004 - 11:59 AM
QUOTE |
My point is that regardless if Gordon had made a close reproduction versus an exact duplicate there would still be some bandit that would try to pass it off as original. So why not go ahead and make it right. |
The Moor,
First you state that the box is an "exact" duplicate, but now you say it has noticeable differences from the original. Seems contradictory? I can't imagine the possible harm in divulging what these differences are. Do you take issue with Devlin posting the images of GH's box without his permission? If you have his box and realize the differences but prefer to remain mute is one thing. It is an entirely different matter to advise others to also keep the secret like it was "Operation Overlord." This type of censorship appears counter productive for a TSMG info board.
#39
Posted 28 May 2004 - 12:22 PM
" I'm sorry Mr. Smith, you might commit a crime with this weapon or someone might steal it from you and commit a crime with it, etc., etc........."
It's that " What If " mentality that has caused so much chaos for gun owners in this country and to apply that belief system to someone like Gordon Herigstad for the spare parts boxes is one of the most bizarre things I have witnessed on this board. To make personal attacks by attaching drug dealing, forgery and fraud innuendos is something that could be expected from Hillary Clinton and that crowd, but from this group?
One can only hope that cooler heads and reason will prevail on this issue.
When John Thompson's weapon was first introduced, the press had a field day with him. His original intentions for this firearm were honorable, good and true, yet the press labeled his design as a " Diabolical engine of death " and persecuted him for making such a terrible thing. Typical " What If " thinking and yet this board, which holds the Thompson Submachine Gun and all it's related items on a pedestal, have some who would apply that belief system towards Gordon Herigstad and his little metal boxes......................? How sad.
Randy
P.S. I agree with you Murray...............

#40
Posted 28 May 2004 - 03:38 PM
You were undoubtedly one of those GH consulted about leaving a mark on the box. What was your take on that idea? Did you ever find a NZ buyer for your Irish Sword?
To be, nor not to be; that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to leave box marked
Or to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged collectors
Sorry Bill.