91 replies to this topic

[Sgt]

Lionhart is going through an identity crisis; his avatar keeps changing. It was Nick N. now Jeremy Brett. I guess he's thinking outside the box.

[Waffen Und Bier]

Hey Arthur!

No acquired taste for Colts here. For me, it was love at first feel. I'm a Colt collector going way back. Was just funnin' with John. Miracle Whip?!?! Plegh!!! No self respecting tuna eater uses Miracle Whip. Thas nassy. Rut roh, did I just start another debate?

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

W&F,
Hold the mayo!

Devlin,
Replica TSMG's are already marked by the name of the manufacturer so there is no need to stamp "replica" on them. D.R. should have stamped his barrels even though they are not that difficult to differentiate from the originals. But your proclimation that, "having a Mark or no Mark wouldn't have changed anything," is not true at all. First, if it did have a mark that would then require some overt action (however minor or involved the subterfuge required), on the part of the next seller to pass it off as original. Second, if it did have a mark you, as you stated earlier, would never have purchased one (two). If you discovered a mark would you want a refund? There is a difference betwen a replica and a forgery. Hey, GH is one of the few lonely voices who dares distinguish between TSMG's up until 1944 and those that came afterward. So I am hardley a critic of GH, but even if a nefarious buyer of his box later sells it as original, GH becomes an "enabler." Even if an erasure of a mark was infinitely easy, that tiny extra additional signature would go a long way to ensure harmony for all concerned in the future.

[LIONHART]

Arthur, in looking over my Box, I see no mark anywhere on the Box itself. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't one present. I also believe that having a mark or no mark wouldn't have deterred an unsavory person or persons from passing one of Gordon's boxes off as the genuine article to the unwary. I stated that if a mark had been applied, I wouldn't have made my purchase from Gordon. In light of the latest developments posted earlier today by Murray, it sounds as if there is an identifying mark somewhere on the box, but at least not an intrusive one, which wouldn't prevent me from making another purchase. Arthur, you stated the following previosely on this subject, "If you have his box and realize the differences but prefer to remain mute is one thing. It is an entirely different matter to advise others to also keep the secret like it was "Operation Overlord." This type of censorship appears counter productive for a TSMG info board." I agree with your statement, and if there are differences, prey tell, what are they? Unfortunately I'm without an original box to make the necessary analysis to adequately compare the two.

[Norm]

Maybe this little tin box should be known as "Pandora's Box!"

[Walter63a]

PhilOhio, I agree with you 100%, criminals are criminals, bad guys are bad guys, and crooks are crooks, period! The liberals never fail to amaze and amuse me with their creative blame shifting, situational ethics, and social engineering attempts. For example, according to most liberals, "only white people can be racists." What a laugh!!! They must be forgetting about the Japanese scientists experimenting on captured American soldiers (overwhelmingly Caucasian) during WWII, and the fact that blacks were slaveholders of other blacks, long before any European ships ever visited Africa (and blacks in Africa continue to be slaveholders of other blacks to this very day, in their benighted cultures). They must also be ignorant of the facts concerning black slaveholders in the U.S.A., prior to the ending of the American Civil War. These Black slaveholders owned both fellow blacks and whites. If anyone doesn't believe this, you are ignorant of American history and need to start reading, which most modern Americans are loath to do. Regards, Walter

[Sig]

This topic sure morphed into another subject.

[Walter63a]

Are you afraid of the truth, Sig? If not, I suggest you start reading American history, particularly primary sources, to find some answers. Best Regards, Walter

[Sig]

Walter not sure how you got I am afraid of the truth about something.
Just pointing out the topic has nothing to do with more recent posts.
The original topic was GH's spare parts boxes or did we all forget that?
Or maybe I missed reading one of the posts?
I will shut up now since I seem unworthy of being in this particular discussion as I can not make sense of how a spare parts box has anything to do with a discussion on crime in our nations capital.

[Walter63a]

Sig, I think that I was just pointing out that the same type of liberals who want to take our Second Amendment rights away, are also responsible for calling everyone who is a white, male, Christian, heterosexual, conservative a racist. Phil was, if I may be so bold, stating that these same liberal/ left wing Democrats are responsible for the crime waves in our large cities, by disarming decent, honest, law-abiding citizens, while excusing criminal behavior (even to the point of blaming the victims)!!! I happen to agree with Phil. Regards, Walter

[Ron A]

My parts box arrived - its great, as expected. I am going to order a 2nd one for another cased set. Gordon advised he is going to offer the pull thru brush etc:
Well worth the money...

[AZDoug]

I haven't read all this thread, but it brings to mind a conversation I had with a classic Corvette dealer about 1988, when Corvettes got real expensive.

Did you know that there are currently more 1967 427/425 original Corvettes in existance than GM ever produced?

The fakes were SO good, with the firewall plate, and protectoplate and other crap that a true original couldn't be distinguished from the fake? He had a dozen or more (possibly) original 427 Corvettes in inventory, and he couldn't sell them for what he had in them due to the counterfiet 'vettes becoming a problem with authenticity

That caused a massive price meltdown, as the purists who wanted an original 427 Corvette, didn't know if it was or not.

When prices got high enuf, there was a profit motive to turn a 327/300 Corvette Stingray into a 427/425 original.

In reality, is an indistinguishable fake any differnt than a true original? They look, perform and feel the same, but emotionally, if you want Original, it isn't the same.

Hmmm, this sounds like a good thesis for some Psych major working on his PhD, about the emotional involvement with inanimate objects, and their originally with respect to emotional satisfaction and life fullfilment issues....

Doug

[PATHFINDER]

QUOTE (Norm @ May 31 2004, 05:10 AM)

Maybe this little tin box should be known as "Pandora's Box!"

I have sat here and read this entire thread. I have no opinion one way or the other on the spare parts box question. But man, there sure are some people here with 'situational ethics'. I have seen examples of the attitude that "as long as they are the ones on the long end of the stick it's O.K." but this one takes the cake!. One thing is for sure: all of you guys who own these 'replica' spare parts boxes and think that they do not diminish the originals should never say another word about 'West Hurley Thompsons' not being real Thompsons.
Glass houses and all that............

[AZDoug]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jun 3 2004, 07:24 AM)

But no matter how long we muse about the interesting aspects of such entertaining diversions, the concept of integrity and personal honesty is such a nice, clean, crystal clear, uncomplicated concept to consider. It's an anchor, or should be. It is so easily understood...at least by those who choose to do so, and don't delude themselves...and it just stands out there all alone, towering above the B.S. and double-talk...a hitching post in a rising sea of horse doo-doo...maybe caused by global warming or something.

As they say, by the time a counterfeit gets to its third owner, it is original. The first seller knows it is fake/counterfeit, the second guy has a pretty good idea, and the third guy convinced himself it is the real McCoy.

The fourth owner just bought a genuine, original item. The dishonesty was practiced by one, two and three to varying degrees, the fourth person may unknowingly have a fake, but he isn't dishonest.

If something is pawned off as original that isn't, that is unethical. If nobody can tell the difference, and nobody knows the history of an item , everything is supect, authentic or not. personally, I see no diff between a 100% indistinguishable replica, and an original, as I don't buy stuff based on it's collectability/provenance, I buy stuff 'cuz I want it, and I found out stuff I want, tends to be the type of stuff that people replicate due to it's demand.

The more and more replica stuff of whatever is circulating, makes proving provenance more import. You can't just say "I bought it at a gun show 3 years ago", you need bills of sale, and copies of the bills of sale from previous owners to prove that what you have is the real McCoy.

Doug

[AZDoug]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jun 3 2004, 09:11 PM)

All of which are reasons why I, like you, would never be getting into the area of collecting where I pay actual money for guns, accecssories, attributes, provenance which is easily faked or of questionable authenticity. It's all smoke and it ain't worth it.

BINGO!

I just ask myself: Self, will all this authenticity/originality/mine is better than yours, really matter in a 1000 years when all that iron has returned to the rust from whenst it was made and everybody that cared about stupid stuff like this has been dead for centuries?

I keep getting the answer, "no" back. :-)

Enjoy, but do not covet, it is a waste of time.

Doug

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (AZDoug @ Jun 4 2004, 01:09 AM)

Enjoy, but do not covet, it is a waste of time. Doug

Holy crap Batman were getting deep here..... So why are we here? Why do we accumulate physical items which we cannot take with us? Why do we bother going out and dump an L drum, when we have but a "The Blink of an Eye" on this piece of dirt we call earth? Shouldn't we be out helping our fellow man? So many wrongs to be righted....















Nahhhhh.... Grab the Thompson and a shitload of ammo, lets go destroy sumptin......

[Sgt]

I used to wonder about those things too. Life is like an earthworm. Dirt goes in the front end of the tube; it comes out the back; and the hole gets deeper and deeper. Finding "the meaning" is what it's all about.

By the way, if any of you want to shed some of your earthly lucre, send Sgt. all your Thompsons, and don't forget the accessories.

I know, this has absolutely nothing to do with the spare parts box.

[Sgt]

Phil--
When I die, I want my tomb stone to say, "the box is worth more than the contents." Oh, I almost forgot, it needs to be in white letters. Luv-Sgt.

[colt21a]

when you guys go,just get creamated,then get loaded into 100 45 casing.and get shot out of a 21 or whatever thompson you like,while they play the marines theme,or any song you desire..................thats the way to go out............wink!!


oh!back to the box!!i heard now there are collectors who just want replica stuff..........even some german collector's................since so much has been replicated in that market....it's almost impossible to tell..............and they had fakes in 1944-45-46.............even france was doing them.

and i did buy two,will fill them up.put them in the case and they will sit,

its the same as putting 10 c-notes{hundred dollar bill}in the case and enjoying it.wink!!!

but it beats spending $4,000.00......{for original}

and remember when these became popular.i did not see my first one till around 1971>way before any book's......on the item's had been published.......

and anybody in thompson world knew what they were.

also the material one's have been faked for years already.........{duH?}so let the colt guys the military guys,and the rest have fun.............as doug said in az.1000 years from now............heck 20 years from now......nobody cares...........

and i will predict 5 years from now.new collectors will be looking for the "gordon box"and will pay $500.00 for one.......if anybody wants to sell them by then..........will i be selling mine? no!!!since i will have that into them just to fill um...................$1,000.00 offer >no way again!

it's something i like....................take care,ron

[Melvin]

Ron,
You just cant say off this subject . How come,tell us the truth . There must be a reason [its called I know better Chuck] . Most have never had the chance to own a real one and in my small mind I know you have had the chance to have many to inspect and sell . That is why you must be happy with these new ones. And what ever happened to the Mason City gun is that the one in your other post.

Chuck