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Returned "british" Thompsons


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#1 pmlogg

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 06:46 PM

Of the Thompsons that were supplied to the British at the start of WW2 how many of them would have been from the left over stocks of Colt manufactured weapons?

Of these how many made it back to the U.S. after the war. (I note a number of references in posts to British marked Thompsons.)
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#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 08:07 PM

pmlogg,
Just because there is a British proof mark on a TSMG, it doesn't necessarily mean that the gun ever left the U.S.

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#3 John Jr

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 10:56 PM

Arthur/David, where have you been for so long?
WE HAVE MISSED YOU!

pmlogg, If a Thompson (a real Savage or AO gun and not a fake colt model) has British proof markings on it, then it was a lend lease gun. Don't let freaks and liars tell you any different.

Poor AF. You are such a wussie! How is the Georgia climate treating you, did you enjoy your vacation?

JR

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#4 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:19 PM

JJ,
So now I am "David?"....I guess that makes you Goliath. And we know what his fate was.....So before you keel over from the rock, better check your TSMG Brit proofs and make sure that gun ever had a passport to leave the U.S.

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#5 pmlogg

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 02:07 PM

Perhaps my question was a bit vague.

American Thunder lists the contracts of Thompsons sent overseas in the early part of the war. The French (don't start again please) got 3,000 and the dates suggest that these must have been old stock. The Brits orders then started. But were any of these old (Colt) stock or did the sales commence with Savage 'commercials'?

I believe that an earlier post suggested that an attempt has been made to identify what happened to the Colt guns, by serial number range. If we know the range, Members of our Group might be able to identify guns that are currently in the U.S. Presumably there will many that cannot be unidentified but the result might help me to know whether there is any point me seeking a Colt made gun, in the U.K., outside of a museum (eg the 1921's in Northern Ireland and at Warminster). Europe could be another potential source (hence my question about the guns that went to France.

Thanks
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#6 Balder

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (John Jr @ May 26 2004, 10:56 PM)


pmlogg, If a Thompson (a real Savage or AO gun and not a fake colt model) has British proof markings on it, then it was a lend lease gun. Don't let freaks and liars tell you any different.

JR

John Jr,

Even if a Thompson has British proof marks, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a Lend-Lease gun. The Brits bought quite a few M1928 Thompsons in 1940 (I am the lucky owner of one of them), the Lend-Lease Act was not passed until spring 1941 and came into effect later the same year. Hope that doesn't make me a freak or a liar smile.gif

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#7 sigma1

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 03:17 AM

According to Ian Skennertons 'British Small Arms' book the M1921 was declared obsolete/second line in 1942 so old Colt guns must have made it to Britain in the early years of the war.
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#8 pmlogg

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 08:13 PM

sigma1

Thanks for that, the best clue so far.
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#9 John Jr

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:02 PM

Balder, NO you are not a freak or a liar wink.gif . The guns were stamped AFTER USE and when they were returned to us. They returned guns that were purchased prior to the enactment of the lend lease act as well and stamped them. Not every gun in lend lease was stamped; some were lent to countries other than England. The British stamped their guns when they returned them.

That’s why I say that if it’s a British lend lease gun, it’s stamped with British proofs. They did this in England, not in other countries, including the USA.

Another weird point about British proof marks is they failed to stamp "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" on the Thompson. They stamped that on most everything else they "borrowed" from us.

Go figure.

Jr





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#10 gewehr

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 08:33 PM

I have just recently found this fourm and I am impressed with the amount of knowledgeable people out there.

I found a complete parts kit from a 1928A wiith the rear sling swivel remounted on top of the stock. It also has two screws through the upper part of the stock. I was told that the parts once belonged to a British marked Auto ordnance model. Could this be correct?

Thanks
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#11 21 smoker

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 09:09 PM

gewehr,.. welcome to our home!...more than likely if the swivel is on top it was Brit modified...I have several and they are usually filled in on the bottom,something the Brit armourers were fond of doing...kinda neat I think...historical in a minor sense, wink.gif
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#12 full auto 45

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 10:01 PM

If anyone would want to trade a Brit style stock without any metal for a USA style stock....let me know. I have several and am need of a Brit style. Buttstock and if you have a forearm brit style, I would like to have one also for my goodies bag.

gewehr...........welcome to the fun!
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#13 gewehr

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:32 PM

Thanks for the information. I plan to watch and learn all I can. Maybe some day I will be able to put my parts kit to use.

John
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#14 PATHFINDER

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 12:03 AM

QUOTE (Balder @ May 27 2004, 04:30 PM)


Even if a Thompson has British proof marks, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a Lend-Lease gun.

True but, these proof marks would have been applied in a British proof house........... by British inspectors........ in England. So AFs claim it may never have left the US goes right out the window.
Or Ian Hogg is daft and Robert's your uncle
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#15 Murray

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 12:35 AM

Mike,
Check your e-mail.
Its mid winter here and quite cold and I have been throwing those old British 1928A1 stock, foregrips and pistol grips on the fire here just to keep warm. huh.gif The Stock catch and butt plate metal work play havic with the grate when we have to clean out the ashes. rolleyes.gif
Still, i thinks there is still one or two left there Mike. smile.gif
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#16 1921A

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 02:38 PM

British "proofed" Colts.

The theory that the British proofs were put on the Savage/AOC lendlease guns in England is interesting - never heard that before but then I didn't seriously collect war guns. Most of these guns also have "pressure" stampings on the barrels. Those that don't probably had their original barrel replaced later. I had a Winchester 1918 BAR marked the same way.

Interesting side note - Some Colt thompsons were "British proofed" but sold directly from the factory to police departments. I had one, along with the original invoice/shipping papers. I found several like that over the years. A few even had the rear sight graduations in meters. The "crown" proof mark would suggest that at some time British inspectors came to AOC.

Anybody got any additional data on that?

Greg Fox
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