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West Hurley 1927a1 Semi-auto


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#1 tom1263

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 08:47 PM

Hey All,

I have been searching fior parts for the 1975 West Hurley Thompson 1927A1 semi-auto. I ordered parts from KAhr and started to learn about this rifle. The only thing that matched was the trigger. The sear that came in the order was a one piece and mine is "two pieces". I spoke with tech support at Kahr and he stated my parts were going to be very difficult to find. I also ordered/recieved a "PAWL" and spring....I'm still not sure what those were as I don't have those in this rifle I just found the KAHR schematic and order a whole bunch of parts assuming they all are the same....ooops! I' ve since returned everything but the trigger. I would really like to get an exact replacement 2 piece sear and the "2" springs that go with it. Both the sear pieces seem to need a spring. The bigger piece has a spring, but the smaller sear piece has a hole, but no spring. The rifle works fine so I'm wondering if there is actually supposed to be another spring in the smaller sear piece.

Sorry for the long winded note. I'm a newbie hear and really love these rifles and would like to learn more about this 29 year old model.

I did look at my GUNPARTS (Numrich) and it is not clear, but the parts look like the current KAHR parts....

Any help greatly appreciated! Great site!

Tom

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#2 PK.

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 08:35 AM

The early WH gun have different fire control set ups than the Kahr and later WH guns- there were not may made prior to the change to the improved system.

In the old system, most of the parts were made by modifying FA parts. The pawl and trip were not utilized (the actuator was pulled upwards into a cut out in the top of the receiver to lock the bolt back*). The FA sear was cut in half and become a sear carrier and the FA sear lever was notched and actually became the sear. The frame was machined to accept this parts set and won’t take the new parts without being modified.

The new system is a big improvement and should be utilized in a shooter, but if you want to retain the historical nature you have two choices; buy a new model frame assy and install it on your gun with a new bolt or, the parts for the old system can be made from SMG parts, just as they were originally.

The gun will work with only the one spring installed, but it is better to have both, although this will increase the trigger pull. Use SMG springs. The larger is called the sear spring, the smaller the sear lever spring although they actually work in opposite parts in this design.

*It is interesting to note that the current actuator is still made to function in the “lift to lock mode” even thought it would be stronger, cheaper and better were this not so.

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#3 Zamm

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:42 PM

PK.
Wow, another mystery solved!! I thought I was dreaming all these years that when I first got my West Hurley, you locked the bolt back by pulling up the Actuator and letting it slide forward a bit into a smaller cutout in the frame. Well, after putting about 500 rounds through the thing in a month or so, it stopped functioning and I sent it back. When returned, it had the little flip lver of the pawl installed and no more lifting of the actuator to hold open.
It sure explains the weird 20XX bridgeport mag that originally came with it. The follower was cut at a right angle and peened down with a hammer so the bolt would close ( slip right over the follower, pushing it down slightly) on an empty clip instead of ramming the follower side!

Tom1263, is this the way the magazing folower looks on yours?

Talk about learning things!
Cheers, Zamm
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#4 28 SCARAB

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 08:18 PM

Tom1263 Change the fireing pin and bolt handle on that[1975] 1927a1 if thay have not been . The heat treat was wrong on both of them . Also the one pic. sear will work that WH used from 1976 until the end . you just don't need the pawl or trip [ hold open] PK. I just got your e mail been out of town. Ill send you a note in a day or two

Edited by 28 SCARAB, 01 June 2004 - 08:21 PM.

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#5 tom1263

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:30 PM

Thanks you guys!

Finally some real info. I'm really into original stuff, so it looks like I shoud probably go to Numrich Gunparts. Are they the cheapest place with real G.I. parts? As far as my bolt, I did order one from KAHR but it seemed to fit much looser through the bolt face hole. My bolt is wider at the square part at the pin end. The one from Kahr was ground to be slimmer where it goes through the bolt face. I did'nt like the look of that. Can I also use a G.I. bolt on this as well as the sear parts?

Thanks AGAIN!!

Tom
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#6 LIONHART

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 09:41 PM

Tom, those early '27A1 guns featured modified M1 TSMG Bolts. www.northridgeinc.com is one source for parts, and another is, www.sarcoinc.com
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#7 tom1263

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 10:08 PM

Thanks Lionhart!

If the bolt is replaced with a used SMG one, doesn't headspace need adjusting? Also, I was actually curious about the firing pin. Are they the same in the semi's and F/A's ? I would like to replace the pin, and maybe the extractor. Curious about the extactor as well as far as the S/A vs. F/A difference.

Thanks, Tom
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#8 LIONHART

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 10:39 PM

Tom, there are two different types of Firing Pins for the '27 Bolts. One that is rectangular and the other which is round. If you were to purchase one, obtain the type that you already have. Numrich should have both styles available. You could have someone copy your old Bolt for modification purposes on an M1 Bolt if you were to aquire one. There is no difference between a FA or SA Extractor, and the FA Firing Pins will not work in a SA Bolt for obvious reasons.
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#9 PK.

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:39 AM

Tom,

You seem to be saying that you are under the impression that you can buy SMG parts from NAC and put them in your semi- this is not true. The semi parts (including the bolt) were originally made from heavily modified SMG parts. I do not know of any source for early, original 27a1 parts. If you are intent on maintaining originality, they can be made from SMG parts.

Generally, few of the SMG parts are useable as is in the semi guns.

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