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Value Of A 1921 Colt, Serial Number 41?


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#21 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:17 AM

Could this guy have gotten a hold of an over run Colt un-numbered receiver before Numrich started stamping NAC on them with his serial numbers? Possibly. But if we are to take this story at face value, this guy abscunded with a military base armory Thompson back in the early 1950's which would render improbable that this guy, or the military, got a hold of a receiver out of a crate that Numrich "discovered" back in 1951. Numrich was obliged to stamp NAC on all these unregistered TSMG's before submitting applications for registration to ATF. If the number 41 does appear on the barrel face and behind the grip mount it would go a long way in authenticating this as the real #41. But of course if this guy's intention all along was to commit a fraud it would not be all that difficult to get another latter manufactured Colt barrel 50 years ago and mark it #41. The fact that this is an amnesty reigistered TSMG means he could well have had a dummy receiver made sometime before 1968 and had any number stamped on it knowing that Colt serial #41 would not be in ATF's registry.

This is the problem with a lot of Colt TSMG serial numbers that have no documented history. When one of these (especially the first commercial serial numbered gun to roll off the assembly line), shows up after being lost for 83 years there are a lot of questions that may never be answered to anyone's satisfaction.

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#22 Norm

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:58 AM

How many Colt manufactured receivers did Numrich find in 1951?

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#23 hawksnest

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 03:19 PM

Norm: Quoting from page 206 of Helmer's "The gun that made the twenty's roar" ... "When George Numrich picked up the crated assets of Auto-Ordnance, he was suprised to discover that some of the boxes contained complete submachineguns - some eighty-six in all, including several of the very earliest prototypes. To comply with federal law, Numrich immediately registered the guns with the Treasury Department." ... Helmer doesn't say if all 86 were Colts.
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#24 Norm

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 03:33 PM

Why can't I find a crate with eighty-six Thompsons in it!?! ohmy.gif
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#25 giantpanda4

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 09:10 PM

Phil,
I have not read yet any answer to your question about amnesty registering a gun - with no questions asked. Reason I am curious is I have s/n "15043" which we know is a fake, but still it is registered as 15043.
My curiousity comes from this gun having the same story - registered but (probably) not the original s/n.
The big question - were there people faking s/n's on guns prior to 1968? I dount there was any collectability in these guns at the time (I don't recall - I was 10!!).

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#26 giantpanda4

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Posted 06 June 2004 - 07:12 PM

Phil,
Thanks for the reply,
I would guess the same as you have about the amnesty - no questions asked could cover a lot of things.

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#27 21 smoker

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Posted 06 June 2004 - 09:34 PM

Ron,..#6444..you mean who swiped it,not who owned it,don`t you?...I know that number well cause I have #6422 and I figure they both were made about the same week...maybe the same day...I also was lucky enough to fondle a 3 digit Colt on saturday,man..you could shave with those cooling fins,you are right...they are thin on early Colts...sweet peice! wink.gif
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#28 TD.

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Posted 06 June 2004 - 10:03 PM

All of the NAC Thompsons with Colt receivers I have seen pictures of have a late Colt production receiver. There are several differences between the early Colt receivers and the late Colt receivers. Changing a late receiver to an early receiver would be a very difficult, if not impossible task. Given the prices of Colt Thompsons in 1968, I can't see someone having an early receiver made up so as to register NO 41 and then just sit on it for 30 plus years. In addition, if someone was going to fake the receiver, then why not the lower. (But I will agree, anything is possible) Other Colt receivers besides the NAC Thompson do exist. Remember the Denmark NO 7886 - and there are others just like it that have no definitive explanation. Time will tell on this Thompson. One way or the other, it will make its way to the market. Hopefully, drbones will keep us informed.

While we are on the topic of NAC Thompsons, I would be interested in any serial numbers anyone has seen (or heard of) of NAC Thompsons with Colt receivers. Based on my limited research, I would guess the number is rather small. I am always looking to increase my knowledge in this area. Any information anyone has regarding NAC Thompsons with Colt receivers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom

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