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The Private History Of My Us Model Of 1928a1


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#1 John Jr

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 10:12 PM

I was on the AR15.com site some time ago and found a post by Phil_as_teen, a person whom posts here from time to time I think. He has made public a little letter he had written that requests that the AFT send all the history that they keep on your gun under the Freedom of Information Act. Certain information must be blacked out that concerns tax information. Information that is collected under a tax law is exempt from the FOIA and therefore will be excluded. Here is a link to the letter on AR15 HERE


I have decided to share my completed request with the rest of you nice folks for a couple of reasons. First so you can see what they look like and second to ask for help deciphering the redacted forms.

CLICK HERE for the PDF file. You must have adobe acrobat to read this file. I did not include every single page that the ATF sent me, but did include most. I withheld the cover letter, and my own form 4. I also know the seller and who sold him the gun. I don't know where the dealer got the gun from, but every time the gun transferred except to me and the previous owner, it transferred on a form 5. I assume it’s a PD gun.

Here is what I can tell you about this so far: I purchased the gun in Feb 2002 from the owner Mr. X (we will call him that for reference). I called Mr. X today and he said he bought the gun from a dealer named George Trgina. Mr. Trgina was a class 3 dealer there in New Kensington, Pennsylvania at that time. Mr. X said that Mr. Trgina was basically a part time C3 dealer that worked kind of out of his basement. Mr. X said that Mr. Trgina was now divorced and no longer a dealer. This is all he could tell me about this. I have tried to locate Mr. Trgina today with no luck. Does anyone know of him or where he can be found?

I believe from the Form 5 (page 7 of the document) is when Mr. Trgina got the weapon from a police agency. Note the date. Around 7-8 months after the 1986 MG ban. Page 9 appears to be some kind of Amnesty Registration form I think. Note in box 17 the signature is redacted, but Chief of Police follows it. Also at the end of line 21, it says, "police a1." Page 11 shows the first recorded history. Dec 11 1957 is the date. This is weird for two reasons. How could this be an amnesty gun if it was transferred in 57 on a form 5? Next thing is to note is block 4, shows the SN to be #245163 instead of S245163 and then you see this note in the instructions that says "Not filed, SN entered as S245163”. What the hell is that all about?

I was hoping that you gents might have some insight for me.

One more tidbit...If you print out page 6 and turn it over and hold it up to a window in the daylight (or a lamp or something) you can almost make out George Trgina, an address, and New Kensington, PA and zip code. Look right above where it says "Applicant Certification." I guess this is caused from bleed thru when the document specialist ran the copies.

Any thoughts???
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#2 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 10:44 PM

How many days did your FOIA request take ?
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#3 John Jr

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 10:49 PM

About a month I guess. Could have been less.

Jr
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#4 Waffen Und Bier

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 01:03 AM

Maybe whoever possessed it in 1968 wanted to be safe and chose to fill out the paperwork just to be sure Treasury had it on file.
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#5 John Jr

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 03:22 PM

I dont guess that you still know how to get ahold of him these days??

Jr
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#6 John Jr

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Posted 19 June 2004 - 04:48 PM

Thanks tons Ron. !
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#7 Tman

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Posted 20 June 2004 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE
Not filed, SN entered as S245163”. What the hell is that all about?


That is a post-it note for internal use. I have seen it on a bunch of forms. Some show where the microfilm is stored or any corrections to the registry (like in this case). Hope this helps.

G
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#8 TSMG28

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 12:11 PM

John,

The '57 paperwork doesn't necessarily mean it was on the registry in '68. My gun had an ATF tag dating from '56, but it was not on the registry in 1999. It took almost two years for my dealer figthing through the ATF hierachy to get it back on the registry and finally into my hands.

Or, Waffen Und Bier may just be correct in saying it was a CYA move during the amnesty period.

So many possibilities, so few true facts.......

Roger


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#9 philasteen

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 09:52 PM

I'm glad my letter is going to good use. Has anyone else successfully used it?
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#10 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 07:55 AM

I have a FOIA request in to ATF. I have not received a reply from them yet. Thanks for the letter!
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