Posted 01 July 2004 - 06:22 AM
RichFitz – Thanks for the update on NAC – 45. So Numrich Arms Corporation is listed as the manufacturer. This may have been one of the receivers Numrich Arms Corporation found when it unpacked the crates or possibly a complete prototype M1 that Savage built when developing the M1 Thompson that never was serial numbered. The prototype theory could explain the Bridgeport and Calibre markings that Arthur picked up on. I wonder if it is the 45th NAC Thompson completed and sold by Numrich Arms Corporation. Hopefully, information about a few more NAC guns will be posted.
Full auto 45 – Thanks for the “big” picture. I now recall the earlier posts on this gun.
Arthur – The creating of a corporate entity to market the Thompson Submachine Gun and Semi-Automatic Carbines was both a business decision and a marketing decision. Since production was going to begin on new and old products, I assume a business decision was made to create a separate business to go fourth in this endeavor. The obvious reasons are tax purposes, liability concerns, insurance and what appears to be new owners (Trast and company). The point to follow in all of this is the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, West Hurley, New York was formed with all the proprietary and physical assets that Numrich Arms Corporation had purchased in 1951 from Fredrick Willis. This transfer of assets allowed the lineage to continue when Ira Trast came into the picture as the president of Auto-Ordnance Corporation, West Hurley, New York. I don’t know the details between Ira Trast and George Numrich on the sale and creation of the West Hurley Auto-Ordnance Corporation. I have always thought of them as joined at the hip so to speak since Trast was a long time employee of George Numrich. I also believe the West Hurley Auto-Ordnance Corporation was located on the same property as Numrich Arms Corporation in West Hurley, New York (seems like I read that somewhere but please correct me if I am wrong). I don’t think Trast, the West Hurley Auto-Ordnance Corporation or the subsequent sale to Kahr Arms have done anything to end the continuing lineage of what General Thompson started in Cleveland, OH. I don’t think too much detail has been written or recorded on these recent business decisions. I would guess in time all the information will come out.
However, let’s address a few more of your concerns. I can tell you are on the right path by your questions. As you can see, Trast and the West Hurley Auto-Ordnance Corporation did not have to make a deliberate path to the New York Auto-Ordnance Corporation. That path has always been clear. As the new president of a corporation that owned everything Numrich Arms Corporation once owned regarding the Thompson, Trast could have named this corporate entity anything he or the board wanted to. Staying with the old name was a brilliant marketing decision. What better advertisement than showcasing your proud heritage to the world. Of course, the location of the company had changed so the West Hurley address was put on the guns, literature and catalogs for all to see.
Russell Maguire’s son owns the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, New York, New York. I thought Russell Maguire changed the name of Auto-Ordnance Corporation to McGuire Industries, Inc when he relegated the tommy gun business to the Auto-Ordnance Division of McGuire Industries, Inc. That is interesting. Just out of curiosity, what does this corporation do? What is the corporate structure and purpose….and business plan? I assume this New York, New York corporation is not involved in the gun business since it sold off all the rights to the Thompson Submachine Gun years ago to Kilgore. As I stated earlier, I am not following the corporate entities. These are easy to create and change. I am following the Thompson Submachine Gun and all the rights that go with it that were sold off by McGuire to Kilgore in 1949 for a reported $385,000. I have no problem using the word “reported” for the selling price. What is uncontroverted is the sale.
Helmer’s book does show the continuing lineage from Cleveland to West Hurley. His reporting does not manufacture a problem that does not exist based on corporate names. As you know, it is from his book much of what I have written has been taken. I don’t see the word “replicas” in the Cox and Helmer books when referring to the Numrich Arms Corporation.
I can see you follow the lineage. I don’t think the corporate names really confuse anyone but only offer an excuse for those that do not want to accept the obvious. The real roadblock with the West Hurley Thompsons is clearly stated in the last sentence of one of your last posts. It has to do with the quality of the West Hurley Thompsons compared to the Colts and WW II Thompsons. I agree with you on this point. The West Hurley Thompsons are a disappointment in this area. However, considering what they originally retailed for, I am not too overbearing on this issue. I am grateful the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, West Hurley, New York gave us another approximate 4000 West Hurley Thompsons to play with. I would also like to know how many more NAC prefix and suffix Thompsons George and company built and sold, hence the real intent of this thread.
Any more NAC prefix or suffix Thompsons out there. We have compiled a lot of good information. Let’s add some more.