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F.b.i. Thompsons


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#1 Grumpy

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 01:50 PM

Hi Gang,
O.k., what model Thompson is correct for a dummy display in a F.B.I. case? A model '21 or a model '28? Did the F.B.I. buy/have any model '21s? If a '28, then Savage or AO? '28 commercial or '28A1?
Also did they ever have/use any M1/M1A1s?

Thank's, Bill
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#2 Grumpy

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 02:32 PM

Guess you can't edit the title? F.B.i, F.B.I. what's the difference!
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#3 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:12 PM

Grumpy,
The FBI didn't order TSMG's from Auto-Ord until they were allowed to carry firearms in 1934. All the 115 guns ordered during the 1930's were Colt Navy 1928 models. Post WWII, they also added Savage/AO models to their armories.

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#4 Murray

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:24 PM

Grumpy,
The first Thompson purchased by the FBI Baltimore Maryland was serial #4471 in 1934 and as Arthur says was a 1928 Navy .
The next two #4994 and #4996 were also model 1928 Navy,
{ref: Gordon Herigstad Colt Thompson serial number book #123.}
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#5 Zamm

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 04:13 PM

Thought you guys might be interested in these pics.
I'm working with a black artist who uses old Sepia and Ebony magazines for images.
We ordered a whole stack from the 40's off of Ebay, and while going through them I found one dedicated to blacks at the FBI.
Some great shots of 28's ( love those tracers!)
Enjoy, Zamm

EDIT: Again, sorry, Frigged up good today using an MSN passport site to post photos!!
Apologies, will re-post at a proper URL in future.
Zamm



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#6 Ron A

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 07:02 PM

Cant see photos - just red X
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#7 Grumpy

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 08:20 PM

Thanks for the help guys.

Bill
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#8 full auto 45

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 08:56 PM

Hey Zamm, email me the pix your talking about and I'll get them up. I can put them on my site and go from there.
mrhsharkey@worldnet.att.net
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#9 Grumpy

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 05:19 PM

Hi Guys,
Forgot to ask, did the F.B.I. Thompson's have vert. or horiz. foregrips?

Bill
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#10 gijive

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 07:31 PM

Grumpy,

There is photographic evidence that they had both. The Colt Thompson horizontal foregrip is a scarce item. Most law enforcement Thompsons were ordered with the vertical grip and that seems to be the most common type based on existing examples.
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#11 full auto 45

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 06:54 AM

Here's the pictures that Zamm was talking about. Pretty cool.

FBI 1
FBI 2
FBI 3
FBI 4


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#12 Zamm

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 10:44 AM

Phil,
Yeah, I noticed that also. Mugging for the camera.

Another tidbit about the photo is it was originally a black and white shot that they "match" colored
with 3 colors for printing. Notice the foregrip is the same color as the blued steel and suit on the guy.

This was a way of running "full" color covers for magazines back then and keeping the costs down by not having to do a four color seperation of a color negative. Run the main photo-halftone in Black and White, then print transparent "match" colors over the top of the original printing, giving it the apperance of a full color photo.

Thanks to Mike for posting the photos!
Best, Zamm
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#13 PATHFINDER

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 12 2004, 08:40 AM)

Hope somebody eventually taught that guy in the fourth picture how to hold the gun before squeezing the trigger.


Take a closer look at the photo and look where the ejection port is. Also notice you can not see the mag release but you can see the pivot plate!!The photo has beeen fliped, like the portrait of Billy the Kid that 'proved' he was left handed. In the photo Billy is posed with the only known left hand side loading Winchester lever action!!

This is a real FBI agent who knows how to hold his weapon and was not just someone who 'Mugged' for the camera as you can see by his aim point control in full auto fire witnessed by the tight tracer pattern in the other photo. This is also the same guy posing with the target after the tracer burst was fired. ALL FBI agents are well trained with weapons.

Photos are often fliped for dramatic efect and to accent the copy and banner on the cover of a magazine.
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#14 Zamm

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 02:31 PM

Pathfinder,
Mugging for the camera was a poor choice of words...Indeed the photo seems to be flipped, will check out the original tommorrow.
The color thing originally sidetracked me,knowing something was amiss with the position, never gave it a second thought and put it down to a "photo op".

Yes, I knew he was a "real" FBI agent, senior in fact, I read the article...
Zamm
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#15 PATHFINDER

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 08:50 AM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 12 2004, 08:40 AM)

Hope somebody eventually taught that guy in the fourth picture how to hold the gun before squeezing the trigger. Notice where the hot ejected cases would go.

Phil
This remark implied that this man had not been trained and thusly not a full fleged FBI agent.

You do not need a high resolution monitor to see that the ejection port is on the wrong side.

I also do not need to trust the posted photos to draw my conclusions. There are other places to see these photos.
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#16 PATHFINDER

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 12:34 PM

Yes you are correct it 'did not "imply" anything except what was said'. "eventualy taught", as in had not yet been taught, is exactly what was said. I was being polite by saying 'implied'.

You assume the evidence based on your admitedly blurry or distorted view of it. You assume your monitor is the same as everyone elses. You assume no one has access to resources beyond yours.

I have no more to say to you on this forum as it is unproductive. You are right and will remain so.

Like my dad always told me: 'Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.'

I feel I have annoyed the masses enough for one day
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#17 Lancer

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 12:46 PM

Hey guys, it's just a picture. Who cares? It's not like it's a tin box or something important. rolleyes.gif
Sorry guys, could'nt resist biggrin.gif
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#18 Zamm

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 07:44 PM

Ah, hummmm,
Just wanted to show some a 28 in action... ohmy.gif
sorry for all the flipped photo stuff. dry.gif
Cheerio, Zamm
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#19 PATHFINDER

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 07:24 AM

Phil,
You are like that little dog that waits to bark untill after you have your back turned. Just drop it.

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#20 PATHFINDER

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 15 2004, 01:10 AM)
self-awarded screen name,

PhilOhio? We have a saying in Michigan about Ohio (Phils or otherwise)
'Go south until you smell it, and east until you step in it.'
God forbid I come to your private circle and state an opinion your fly trap of a mind does not agree with.
If you have to have the last word this time just to shore up you flagging ego, feel free. I am secure enough to let let old fat men call me names to make themselves feel young and impowered. Just like I let my kids win at chess.

An 'RKI' with 1300+ posts and making 3.7 posts per day obviously has more time than a working man to pontificate on what other people have to say. But remember: just because you have been doing things longer, does not mean you have been doing them right. You are the one with all the time to see 'coneheads' like me come and go here. You need to get a life, there is more to the world that this cloistered little board.

You have humped my leg long enough mutt face. Now, check to make sure you still have a penis and write somthing really witty back to amuse the people you 'know for sure' are your friends.

See you at the next Creek.
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