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Michigan License Help Nfa


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#1 Eagle3

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:15 PM

Once again I am turning to the expertise of this message board. In an earlier post I received some excellent advice regarding who to contact for quality work on my registered Savage model 28 dewat.

Now I am in need of what proper protocol I should adhere to in getting the proper authorization here in Michigan. I understand that a C&R license is a requirement that must be obtained before I submit my forms to the BATF. Is this correct? If there is anyone with knowledge regarding how I should proceed here in Michigan, It would be very much appreciated. I don't want to screw this up by doing anything unlawful.

Thanks,

Eagle3
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#2 First Sergeant

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:38 PM

Eagle3,

I am by no means an expert on Michigan Law but I discoverd it is a C&R state only the hard way. I had planned on retiring up there and not all my NFA weapons are C&R.

As far as re-watting your 1928 I don't believe it is possible. More informed members on this board will likely chime in and provide you the absolute answer. I believe however, that if the Thompson is re-watted it would no longer be eligible for the C&R status. I hope I'm wrong for your sake as I too would re-watt it if possible. Here in Ohio not all NFA weapons need to be C&R. I would go ahead get your C&R license it will save you money in the long run. I am in the process of a form 4 Reising I purchased from Michigan and will save one tax and any trasnsfer fees by purchasing it directly.

Good Luck


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#3 Brickyard

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 07:37 PM

First Shirt:

You may be correct, I do not know? I'm not a MI resident so someone else will need to chime in on the protocol in the mitten. However, my 28 is a rewat and still reatains the origonal AO manufacturer's name on the form 4. So, I believe, and again I am not the one to know, that as long is the gun is "registered" as an AO, it'll always be an AO, i.e., C&R status.

HTH... ?
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#4 Sig

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:16 AM

DEWATs
Michigan is a C&R only state so you would need to obtain your C&R BEFORE submitting to activate your DEWAT.
AND YES you can activate a LEGALLY registered DEWAT.
See text I cut and pasted below from Bardwell's FAQ on the Subguns.com board.
Link to FAQ's at the bottom.
Link to titleII.com where you can get the form necessary to submit for C&R.

TitleII




A DEWAT is an unserviceable gun that has an intact receiver,
thus, as the GCA of 1968 is construed, it is a machine gun. In
1955 the ATT decided that a gun that was a registered war souvenir
(or for a time, a contraband unregistered gun) could be removed
from the coverage of the NFA if it was rendered unserviceable by
steel welding the breech closed, and steel welding the barrel to
the frame. All this was to be done under the supervision of an ATT
inspector. See Revenue Ruling 55-590. The gun became a wall
hanger, ornament, like parts sets now. This was not the same as an
unserviceable gun, which was still subject to the NFA, but exempt
from the transfer tax. These steel welded guns were DEWAT's.
DEWAT stands for DEactivated WAr Trophy; it was regularly done for
servicemen who wished to bring home NFA weapons as war souvenirs.
It was also done to WWI and WWII era guns imported as surplus by
companies like ARMEX International, and Interarmco, and then sold
through the mail in ads in gun magazines. The glory days before
1968. A DEWAT must now be registered to be legal, there is no
longer a legal difference between a DEWAT and an unserviceable
weapon. A few states only allow individuals to own DEWAT machine
guns, Iowa and Kansas come to mind.

A DEWAT machine gun transfers tax free, as a "curio or
ornament", on a Form 5. To be a DEWAT, a gun should have a steel
weld in the chamber, and have the plugged barrel steel welded to
the frame or receiver. Having said that, a gun may be registered
as unserviceable and not be de-activated in this manner. It may
have cement or lead in the barrel, or a piece of rod welded,
soldered or brazed in the barrel. Despite the repeated warnings
from ATT, apparently DEWATs were made or imported that did not have
steel welds. And a weapon registered as "unserviceable" before
1968 was not held to these standards. One (ostensible) reason
machine gun receivers were redefined as machine guns in 1968, thus
bringing DEWATs under the NFA regulation, was that folks were
regularly and easily making their DEWATs live guns w/o complying
with the law. Some barrel plugs were so poor they would fall out
with little coaxing.

To re-activate the gun, ATF requires you file a fully completed
Form 1 (ie you get the gun on a Form 5, including the law
enforcement certification, photo and fingerprints. You have to do
all that again for the Form 1), and pay the $200 tax the gun was
exempt from before. Then when that is returned approved you can
install a replacement barrel, or get the weld out of the barrel, if
possible. In the alternative, a Class 2 manufacturer may
re-activate the gun, and file a Form 2 reflecting the gun is now
live. ATF considers re-activating to be manufacturing, and
requires the re-activator to mark the gun with his name and
address, whether done on a Form 1 or Form 2. If you sent your
DEWAT to a Class 2 to make live he would have to transfer it back
to you on a fully completed Form 4, as a tax paid transfer. These
procedures are not in the NFA law nor the regulations. They are
apparently based in part on the Revenue Rulings that created the
DEWAT program in the 1950's. As a DEWAT was not a NFA firearm,
before 1968, requiring the making tax made sense then as you were
making a machine gun out of something that was the equivalent of a
door stop, legally. Now that is not true, the DEWAT is a machine
gun, and no making tax should attach, as you are not "making"
anything, merely changing the gun from unserviceable to
serviceable.

Folks who are around NFA guns for very long will find there are
still a lot of DEWAT guns that were never registered during the
Amnesty, and are now contraband unregistered machine guns. Folks
have them in closets, up over the mantle... The only safe course
is to abandon an unregistered NFA weapon to law enforcement.


Bardwell's FAQ's
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#5 SecondAmend

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:50 AM

Eagle 3,

Okay, I admit to live in MI.

I'm not knowledgable on rewatting though. The TSMG I have was a regularly registered gun and never dewatted.

Assuming the posting by Sig is accurate (which I have no reason to believe otherwise), in addition, first and foremost before getting the C&R license, find out if there is a CLEO who will sign off for you. If not, you will probably have to incorporate (and keep up with the state rules on that) and get the C&R in the corporate name to avoid the CLEO sign off issue.

Good luck!
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#6 giantpanda4

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 11:00 AM

I live in Mi, too.
And it is a C&R only state, as mentioned.
I have never heard of a rewat being eligible for the C&R list, unless it was registered at some time. That is the question I want to know... was it ever registered?
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