30 replies to this topic

[Sgt. Fox]

Well, took some friends out shooting and had the first round I fired strike the inside of the compensator and mushroom right inside, blowing the comp. and the sight right off the end of the gun. First problem I've had with the Kahr to date. I'm just glad it didn't KB and take my hands off.

The compensator looks pretty crazy with the mushroomed round sticking out through the holes. I'll take some photos in the morning for y'all.

Edited by Sgt. Fox, 06 August 2004 - 11:05 PM.

[Zamm]

Holy Sh*T!
Zamm

[Ltcboy]

How in the hell could that happen? I would be major pi ssed off!! What kind of ammo where you using? Where they reloads or factory? Can you please submit a picture?

MIke

[Sgt]

First off, let me say that I'm glad you are ok and no one was hurt. I've not heard of that happening before. Mine used to fire out of battery and did bad things to the face of the bolt. It almost sounds like the round was deflected just after it left the barrel, slamming into the comp. I'll bet PK could inform us as to what happened. Maybe he'll jump in.

[Supershooter]

My first thought is what kind of bullet was fired just before the fatal shot. Could a bullet have shed its jacket in the bore or in the compensator in the second to last shot? That would set up the last round for blowing that jacket out in front of the last bullet and jamming it in the compensator.

Rich

[Sgt. Fox]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. To answer your questions, the round was a Winchester .45 Auto, straight out of the box and a half-hour out of Wal-Mart. It was actually the first round I fired the entire day that did it.

I had noticed the last time I was out shooting that the sight/compensator was rotated ever-so-slightly clockwise. I only noticed because when I lined up the sights, the front sight looked like it was rotated 1-3 degrees clockwise. I never imagined it would cause it to blow up!

I uploaded several photos of it to my website for you all. It's at http://www.reflectionsoflife.com

I'm glad no-one got hurt too. It's always scary when something like that happens.

[Zamm]

Sgt Fox,
Man o man, glad you are okay!
That is one frightning looking group of photos.
I might be guessing here, but it's a good thing that comp was only glued on, or there may have been a different ending to this adventure...
Good luck, hope to find out what this could have been caused by.
Best, Zamm

[Sgt. Fox]

Update. I am completely mystified now... I just examined the inside of the compensator with a good flashlight and THE ENTIRE CASING is in my compensator. I have no freaking clue how that is possible...

Could a previous casing from my last time out shooting have failed to eject or something and ended up wedged in the barrel to be shot by my first round today? That seems amazingly impossible to me...

[Norm]

Could somone have put in the comp without you knowing it?

Man, that is strange!

Thank God for safety glasses!

Norm

[21 smoker]

Sgt. Fox,..truly amazing photos....there almost has to be some foreign restriction that caused this to happen...when I shoot the M.G.s, I learned the hard way to always run a rod down the muzzle to the chamber...anytime there is a stoppage or just starting up...most stoppages are from a faulty mag or belt...but everytime I run a rod to be safe...a REAL GOOD HABIT..2nd nature...maybe there was an empty casing in your gun bag and slipped into the muzzle...casing are always flying in the craziest directions...who knows?...just passing along a safety tip that has saved me a bunch...good luck on the SBR...

[PK.]

That is just downright weird.

SgtFox, would you consider sending the comp to me for inspection before you do anything to it?

If so, please e mail me.

Not knowing the actual dimensions of the parts in question; The exit hole in the comp is usually about .476, a maximum 45 acp cartridge is .480, the minimum .470. A tight fit at best. Not likely a fired case would enter easily under any circumstance.

The Kahr comp’s and barrels I deal with on a regular basis usually fit within .001”, not enough to allow the comp to tip sufficiently to cause an impact such as depicted in the photos. The fact that the sight had rotated a couple of degrees should not have had (in itself) any bearing on the situation.

This could be a bullet failure. It could be that some other object was in the comp prior to firing. I would love to examine this gun and damage parts.

Can we assume that this gun has functioned properly in the past? How much have you shot it?

[deerslayer]

Seeing that the compensator was only pinned on (my older 1927 is screwed on but not pinned) could it have been possible that the compensator had become missaligned (downward)? That would seem to explain how the bullet would catch on on the inside top of the compensator.
Dan

[Norm]

QUOTE

I just examined the inside of the compensator with a good flashlight and THE ENTIRE CASING is in my compensator. I have no freaking clue how that is possible...

The big question is how did a shell casing get into the comp?

[Lancer]

It's hard to tell from the pics but the casing looks small for a .45acp. Could a stray casing of smaller caliber have found it's way into the barrel?

[Sgt. Fox]

These guesses sound like the best explanation I've had so far. I don't usually carry loose ammo in my cases, but I suppose it is possible some got in there somehow. And I do carry all sorts of calibers with me. (.223, .308, .40S&W, .45ACP, .22).

I don't mind sending you the whole gun PK. In fact, I'm going to put in a Form 1 and I can send it to you to be turned into a SBR as soon as it comes in.

[Lancer]

FWIW here's my theory. Casing is lodge in comp. with rim of casing resting on the bottom of comp., open end lodged in comp. slot in a ramp type fashion. Gun is fired, bullet is deflected upward into comp. slots pulling rimmed section of casing into present position.

[Walter63a]

Thanks for sharing this with us Sgt. Fox! Wow, nothing like that has ever happened to me with my 1927-A1! Lancer, I think you might be on to something. Regards, Walter

[Bob B]

Those pictures ARE unbelievable! You must have damn near had heart failure!

I've been trying to work through what might have happened based on the photos, but barring a physical obstruction by some foreign object I can't think of any reason for the failure unless the fit between barrel-end and compensator was sloppy to begin with.

Thinking through that theory (and it's ONLY a theory), let's assume the original fit was loose enough so that the only thing providing rigidity was the cement used to fix the compensator in place. During assembly, the compensator is glued and pinned while the glue is still soft. Before the pin is inserted, the viscosity of the glue tends to maintain compensator/barrel concentricity. However, if the pin-groove on the barrel isn't machined to the PRECISE required depth or its position relative to the compensator pin-holes isn't JUST RIGHT, the driven pin will bear heavily against the barrel, acting as a wedge and biasing the entire fit error to one side. This would result in a "cocked" or off-axis condition that could be either eccentric or axial.

This off-axis condition COULD become progressively worse with firing, since the high forward pressure created by the choked internal profile of the compensator exerts a one sided camming action between the pin and barrel with every round discharged (sort of like clamping the barrel in a vise and tapping the compensator wall opposite the sight with a hammer). Gradual breakdown or displacement of the cement/glue would make the situation worse, and the metal itself is stressed each time, gradually making the fit even looser. Once the off-axis condition reaches the point where the bullet jacket is grazing one side of the compensator exit-bore, a galling or even shearing action commences that dramatically exacerbates the effect and results in the sort of catastrophic failure shown in the photos. This would explain why the bullet jacket appears split in the "head on" photo - the jacket itself bound in the compensator exit bore like a hole-punch stuck in its die, causing a "backup" of lead that was displaced through the compensator ports.

It might not be politically correct to say so in a gun forum, but clearly there appear to be some product liability issues here.

Edited by Bob B, 07 August 2004 - 11:24 AM.

[Ltcboy]

OK--if and I mean "if" the compensator was loose, could there be enough play involved that would cause the projectile to catch and stike the inside of it (compensator) causing the projectile to tumble and then stop, causing all of the damage? Could that realistically happen? I have heard, and I am sure you are all aware, that Kahr's QC is sub-standard and that there have been 1927's sold with loose fitting parts, the rear sight, the barrel, the compensator. Would there be a a little wiggle that would be enough to cause the projectile to strike it?


I am stumped..


MIke

Edited by Ltcboy, 07 August 2004 - 12:59 PM.

[Dylan]

Regardless of whether or not the comp was loose, that would not explain in any way why there is a spent shell casing lodged in the comp. The only explanation that makes sense is a shell casing (most likely sub-45 caliber) somehow found its way inside the comp or chamber and was then lodged in the comp by the ensuing fired bullet.