Can Kahr Drum Mags Be Converted To 50rds?
Posted 15 August 2004 - 05:59 PM
How are to 10 rd drums constructed? Is conversion possible?
Posted 15 August 2004 - 06:26 PM
Posted 15 August 2004 - 06:41 PM
I may try one of Kahr 50 rd drums when they come out.
Posted 15 August 2004 - 06:52 PM
Assuming the ban expires only to be re-implemented at a politically "less sensitive" time, you'd be in possession of an illegally modified magazine. Try explaining that to a judge: "But, but, your Honor, I did it in the six week period before the ban was reinstated ..." "Sure ya did, that's what they all say. I hereby sentence you ..."
Posted 15 August 2004 - 08:33 PM
Posted 15 August 2004 - 09:53 PM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 01:57 AM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 02:12 AM
Not to argue, because I'm certainly no authority, but this reasoning puzzles me because if true, even a temporary lapse of the ban would be tantamount to a general amnesty on any and all currently illegal converted X drums out there (and for that matter any other enumerated violations under the assault weapons ban). Let's assume that someone has an X drum that was illegally modified years ago. The law says that since that time he's been guilty of a serious crime. Okay, the ban expires, only to be reimplemented (let's say) following elections. Can this 2-month window possibly let him off the hook for years of breaking the law? Your point about requiring "post xyz" markings is well taken, but I can't believe the government would just give a free pass to people who have violated the existing ban for years. That would essentially encourage violations of any ban with a sunset clause - if the ban expired a violator could simply claim the illegal conversion wasn't made before then, and if it didn't he could just continue to keep the "evidence" well-hidden. Again, I'm no legal expert, but there ARE exceptions to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing - for example when certain presumptions are written into the law (I remember reading in the Virginia Code a few years back of the legal presumption that mere possession of an unregistered machine gun is prima facie evidence of the intent to use it in a crime), or when a government agency has absolute discretion to determine whether merely having certain parts on the premises constitutes "possession" of an illegal weapon. You may be perfectly right in your analysis and in fact I hope you are, but I'd hate to have to become a test case to find out! I've seen a few such pyrrhic victories in my lifetime- people who ultimately prevailed but lost everything they had getting to that point. Sometimes a huge disconnect between ideal and reality, theory and practice.
Edit: Not to put too fine a point on it, but isn't it also the case (not being a legal eagle I don't know this for sure) that an affirmative defense shifts the burden of proof to the one making it? For example, if a defendant doesn't dispute committing a proscribed act but contends it wasn't criminal because of special circumstances, isn't it his burden to prove (not simply to claim) that those circumstances in fact existed?
Edited by Bob B, 18 August 2004 - 02:36 AM.
Posted 18 August 2004 - 03:22 AM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 04:20 AM
Why change them?
By the conversation here the new L drums will not be much more cost wise than an X.
Who knows the next ban to come around might just be for a 3 round capacity, like a plugged shotgun.
Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:54 AM
You asked, "Let's assume that someone has an X drum that was illegally modified years ago. The law says that since that time he's been guilty of a serious crime. Okay, the ban expires, only to be reimplemented (let's say) following elections. Can this 2-month window possibly let him off the hook for years of breaking the law?" Sure it can. A good (albeit not perfect) parallel can be be used with regards to alcohol and Prohibition. Ex., I'm a bootlegger, have a good stock of whiskey laid in, and then Prohibition is repealed. Can I be arrested for possession of alcohol? No, since first, they'd have no way of knowing when it was manufactured, and secondly because possession of alcohol is no longer illegal. Another example (again, not an exact parallel, but again, close enough for our purposes here) is the 1968 NFA Amnesty. (In this case, however, it was a bonafide amnesty...as long as you registered the gun during the allotted time you could not be prosecuted.
When (if?) the ban expires, it will be as if it never existed. Consider: How could the govt. prove you modified your (manufactured?) your magazine before 922(w) expired? As soon as the ban expires, there's nothing to prevent anyone (state laws not withstanding) from possessing a "high capacity" magazine.
Also consider: Interestingly enough, 922(w) does not prohibit manufacture, only possession and transfer. Therefore, even if you manufactured it during the ban you couldn't be prosecuted for doing so. (OTOH, if you ended up with a really nit-picky prosecutor, he could possibly argue that you couldn't have manufactured it without it also being in your possession...in that case, maybe you could argue you only made the drum body, someone else made the cover, and yet another person made the winder...each of you only made a few parts of a magazine, and of course, it is not a magazine until it is assembled...i.e., the three of you each made "spare magazine parts." (At present, legal to do so.))
You also mentioned the issue of presumption of innocence vs. VA.'s Uniform MG Code and how an unregistered MG constitutes prima facie evidence of intent to commit an crime of aggrerssion. In this instance, since the MG wasn't registered, it proves guilt...i.e., you've been proven guilty. (It's a lot like a speeding ticket...yuou get a ticket, the radar proves you were, in fact, speeding. Now it's up to you to prove that somehow you were not speeding...perhaps the radar gun was defective, or had not been recently calibrated, etc...)
Lastly, you mentioned the issue of differentiating post-922(w) magazines with post-XYZ magazines. Certainly, the law MUST include a way of differentiating between the two, or, as I stated earlier, the law wouldn't stand on grounds of being unConstitutionally vague. In other words, there has to be a clear and difinitive way of telling which ones are legal/illegal to possess.
As for an "affirmative defense," "affirmative defense" is concrete, exonerating evidence, but with the stipulation that you do not dispute you committed the act (as opposed to admitting you are guilty of a crime.) let's say, for example, the law says it is illegal to drive a car unless you have a driver's license. You're pulled over for driving a car, and when you go to court, you use your driver's license as an affirmative defense..."Yes, your honor, I did drive the car, but I have a license to do so, and that exonerates me of guilt." Such evidence must be accepted by the court as concrete proof of your innocence, and thus negates the plantiff's claim/suit.
Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:54 AM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:18 AM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:34 AM
|QUOTE (fred @ Aug 18 2004, 08:54 AM)|
|An X drum is still a good thing to own.|
That brings to mind this question. How much will an X drum be worth after the ban expires?
I would think they would be pretty cheap. Any guesses?
Posted 18 August 2004 - 10:09 AM
Posted 18 August 2004 - 11:19 AM
Virginia's machine gun presumption isn't quite as simple as "being in possession is proof of possession", it's more like "being in possession is not only proof of possession but also prima facie proof of intent to USE it to commit a violent felony." Might seem a small distinction, but with "Law and Order" judges and mandatory sentencing it could easily spell the difference between 3-5 years in ordinary confinement versus 25-to life in SuperMax!
As for "nit-picky prosecutors" (and regulatory/enforcement agents in general), when did anyone hear of one who WASN'T nit-picky? They wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't. Remember that a prosecutor is an advocate - it's not a prosecutor's job to rationalize innocence, it's his job to rationalize guilt!
Don't get me wrong, Bill, in a way I'm playing devil's advocate here. If I ever did find myself in this sort of legal bind, I'd certainly want you in my corner!
Edited by Bob B, 18 August 2004 - 11:34 AM.
Posted 18 August 2004 - 11:29 AM
OK guys, here is the simple sollution. Turn the drum into a 30 or 36 round drum. I created a ring like this to fix up on empty 39 round drum. Rotors for those(39 round drums) are impossible to find so used a 10 round rotor and a ring to make it work again.
The rotor on an X drum isn't strong enough to push out 50 rounds but it will usually do 30 to 40 rounds. I was planning to make up a bunch of these if the ban fails and offer the service if needed to convert the x drums.