10 replies to this topic

[Sgt]

I never did understand the idea of dealer samples. I assume they still being created, since you have pre and post samples. What is their purpose now. Do dealers still sell Thompsons to law enforcement? Forgive my ignorance.

[Sig]

Sgt
To answer your questions in my words.
No (dealer samples) are not being created any more that would be post samples so you are correct there.
Their purpose now (dealer samples) can only be for trade between SOT's and even possibly sale to Law Enforcement.
I would imagine there could be a few departments buying Thompsons but primarily for nostalgia or display not real likely for law enforcement purposes IMHO.
michael

Cut and pasted from Bowers board, below.

On top of the FOPA machine gun restrictions, any NFA weapon
imported into the U.S. after the Gun Control Act took effect (end
of 1968) cannot be transferred to an individual. See 26 U.S.C.
sec. 5844. They can be transferred to SOT's, although without any
written police demonstration request, and kept by the SOT after
surrendering his SOT. These are sometimes called "pre-86 samples",
or "dealer samples", although dealer sample can be used to refer to
either a post-86 machine gun or to any NFA weapon imported after
1968.

[21 smoker]

One little tidbit...`Premay` is also a term used for pre86 dealer sample...

[The1930sRust]

I think there are some definitions in the FAQ about that, too.

[Tman]

Post '86 dealer samples are still being made today. All new guns that PD's and other government entities purchase are considered post samples. They are registered on F10's. The manufacture of pre 86' samples are frozen like transferrable guns.

[jim]

Wrong on the form 10 thing. I'll make everything a little clearer and be more specific.

Pre-dealer sample: A gun that was made or registered before May of 1986(the machine gun ban, AKA Gun Owners Protection Act) but after 1968(another Congressional gun restriction thing).
Pre-dealer samples are usually foreign made machine guns that were imported into the U.S. The reason you see WWI and WWII U.S. machine guns as Pre-dealer samples is because the BATF considers them imports because they were not brought back to the U.S. before 1968.
The benefits of Pre-samples are:
You don't need a law enforcement demo letter to buy one.
You can keep it when you give up your Class 3 license but your children cannot inherit it(they can if they are a Class 3 dealer)

Post-sample machine guns are any machine gun manufactured or registered after May of 1986 regardless of where it was made. Machine guns that are imported today can be brand new yesterday production or WWII machine guns, either way they are post May of 1986 dealer samples.

The problems with Post-sample machine guns:
You must have a letter from a verifiable Law enforcement agency requesting a demonstration of the exact make and model of the gun you wish to buy. The BATF will usually only allow 2 or 3 different machine guns on each demo letter.
You must get rid of you post-sample machine guns BEFORE you drop your FFL/SOT license
Form 10's are used by law enforcement agencies to register contraband machine guns and other NFA weapons that were never registered or were stolen/used in crimes. This form allows L.E. angencies to keep these guns and use them for there own needs. They can only be traded to other L.E. agencies and may not be transferred to dealers

Post dealer Samples are not to be used for trades between dealers to further a "collection" the only purpose is for demonstrations to law enforcement agencies, once the demo is done the dealer may keep the gun in his inventory for future demos. Class 2 manufacturers may convert or manufacture guns in full-auto for "research and development" or for L.E. sales.

[Sgt]

I think I understand now. So you do these demos like a sales pitch to L.E. Do you guys make a lot of sales, enough to make a living on this?

[jim]

Yep, but most departments want only type of rifle and that is the AR-15 or sometimes M16 type weapons.

No, I don't know of any dealers that make a living just dealing machine guns to law enforcement. The trend in law enforcement is going away from full-auto for liability reasons. There are dealers that try and cater towards law enforcement with everything from holsters to guns to ballistic entry shields. I specialize mostly in full-auto's for law enforcement but have a day job to pay the bills.

[TD.]

It seems like I have heard somewhere that a Pre-May 86 dealer sample could be passed on to your heirs (inherited). Any other thoughts on this subject?

[jim]

From what I've read, that USED to be the case. A few years ago the BATF changed their minds. Now only SOT's can get them. I think it's total B.S. myself, your children ARE you, they have your blood.

[Bob]

Another twist, if the weapons (Pre86) are held by by a FFL corp, the assets of the corp can be passed on to the new officers. Sold or inherited.