Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Aw Ban Is Over!


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 12 September 2004 - 09:51 PM

Thanks to everyone here and elsewhere who have worked very hard for quite some time in contacting their State Senators, Congressman, Local Newspapers, Ect. in fighting the renewal of the Assault Weapons ban! We can now celebrate OUR victory! We CAN NOT allow ourselves to face anymore such legislation, and I believe we will have strength again in fighting off attempts by the Anti-Gun Crowd in the future!

From AW Ban Sunset.

Well, we did it!

I don't know about the rest of you, but right now feels just like when you're on the way home from a long trip, and after what seems like an eternity behind the wheel, you finally see the Interstate sign that says you're only a few miles from home. After 10 long years, the failed experiment that is the so-called "assault weapons" ban is coming to a close tonight*.

This victory is primarily symbolic... let's be honest, the main reason why many of us agonized over our lack of adjustable stocks and flash suppressors was that we couldn't have them (well, not without paying a lot more than we felt like we should have to), though the price premium inflicted on some full-capacity magazines was brutal. But, even though the expiration is mostly symbolic, the symbolism is undeniably HUGE. More than anything else, this is a tremendous defeat for the anti-gun movement, effectively stopping it in its tracks. Though they haven't made much (if any) progress in recent years, the AWB was their signature issue, the renewal of which they probably felt would be a slam-dunk. But despite the intense campaign of misinformation, including despicable scare tactics, over-the-top emotional rhetoric, misleading use of statistics, and making the public think the ban restricted machine guns, logic prevailed, and the ban is not going to be renewed.

Anyway, while we take some time to enjoy our hard-fought victory, let us begin to look towards and prepare for the next phase of this battle... follow-through.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein stated a month or two ago, after essentially giving up hope of passing an AWB renewal this year, that she as looking to the November elections to produce a Congress and White House that would be more favorable to the prospect of passing her gun ban. It is up to us to ensure this does not happen.

Many gun owners were understandably upset at President Bush's position of supporting renewal of the ban. But still, here we are... on the cusp of the ban's expiration. President Bush, while maintaining his position that he would sign the ban if it reached his desk, never pushed Congress to do so. Of course, it is likely that even if he had pushed Congress, it still would not have passed in the House, but it certainly did not hurt for him to simply take a passive position on the issue.

John Kerry, on the other hand, strongly supports not only renewing the ban, but "strengthening" it, as he is a co-sponsor of Sen. Frank Lautenberg's radically expanded ban. This frightening bill, S.1431, would ban many more guns, including some specifically "protected" by the 1994 ban. ALL AR-15 and AK-style firearms would be banned (including what we now consider to be "post-ban" firearms), likely bringing an end to the many competitions that use the former. In addition, all semiautomatic rifles or shotguns that have "any characteristic that can function as a grip" would be banned. This dangerously broad description includes pretty much all semiautomatic long guns that have ever been produced, including the shotgun Kerry himself recently received as a gift.

While I doubt there are many gun owners who are going to vote for Kerry anyway, many of us might be considering voting for a third party candidate who maintains an even stronger position on the Second Amendment than President Bush. While it is very tempting to vote for a candidate who so strongly supports the right to keep and bear arms, I think the Republican party has delivered on their promise to support the Second Amendment, and President Bush is getting my vote.

Getting the vote out for Congressional elections is very important too. While Republicans do not appear to be at risk of losing control of the House, adding to the margin of power there would certainly bolster our position. In the Senate, however, there are enough close races that power could possibly shift to the Democrats. That would mean Sen. Bill Frist, the person who essentially shut down any chance of the AWB coming up in that body after Feinstein got her one chance in March, would no longer control the Senate agenda.

So, in short, it is VITAL that we all show up to the polls in November.

Next, although we politically active gun owners are the foot soldiers in this battle, organizations like the NRA and GOA are the heavy artillery. Of course, that statement is somewhat contradictory, as these organizations CONSIST of gun owners. Without us they are nothing... and that's the point. Each of us, waging our own little war against the AWB and gun control in general, can certainly have an effect. But our strength is multiplied tenfold when we actually band together in the form of joining organizations like these. THAT is why the so-called "gun lobby" (which would be more accurately termed the "gun OWNER lobby") is so feared... it is the combination of all of us individually doing our part to ensure our elected officials know how important this issue is to us, AND collectively pooling our resources to accomplish things that, individually, would be impossible, that keeps the Second Amendment protected.

So, if you are not already a member, IMMEDIATELY join the National Rifle Association, and if you can, join Gun Owners of America too. Without these organizations, we would likely not be celebrating right now. If you are already a member of the NRA, please donate some additional funds to the NRA-ILA, even if it's just $20 or so, as this is the arm of the NRA that actually does the work of representing our interests in government.


THE FUTURE OF AWBANSUNSET.COM

Honestly, I had not given much thought as to what would happen to this site once the ban expired. While it has been suggested that the site take aim at some other gun restrictions, I've always felt that the site was created for one purpose, and once that goal was accomplished, that would be the end of it. I figured I might leave it up for a while, in a static state, as a tribute to what we had all accomplished, but nothing else beyond that. But a few months ago, I began to realize how foolish it was for me to think that the expiration of the ban would mark the end of this fight. Of course, I recognize that the fight against gun control will NEVER end, and that there will always be efforts to introduce new AWBs. But I now realize that 2005 will be just as critically important to the expiration of the AWB as 2004 was. The anti-gun side is viewing the upcoming elections as a referendum on the expiration of the AWB, and though the ban is now dead, 2005 will be the year to bury it.

That is our new goal, and we will remain online for at least the next year.



THANK YOU

To everyone who has taken an active role in this fight, thank you, and CONGRATULATIONS! We did it! The ban is history... let's make sure it stays that way.


Now, where did I put that AR-15 adjustable stock wrench?





* Note: There has been a lot of confusion over this, but I think the law is clear... the ban expires at midnight on the 13th (in other words, the night of the 12th). The sunset provision dictates that the ban is "repealed effective the date that is 10 years after [the date of enactment]." The ban was enacted on 9/13/94, therefore effective 9/13/04, the ban is no longer in effect.

Where the confusion likely stems from is that the restrictions of the ban did not take effect until the following day, the 14th. So, some people think the ban expires 10 years from that day. But, the law clearly states that E-day is 10 years from the date of enactment, which makes it the 13th.

In addition, when I called the ATF's public affairs division a week or two ago, I was told the ban expires on the 13th (though this was not an "official" statement).

On top of that, there is confusion as to what constitutes the first moment of a day... when a reference is made to "midnight September 13th," that means the first moment of Monday, not the last.

You can make your own decision as to whether to celebrate the ban's demise tonight, or tomorrow night, but the wording of the law seems to clearly indicate tonight. But if you fear ATF agents will come crashing through your windows if you put your new upper on, you might want to wait until tomorrow. .

  • 0

#2 JimFromFL

JimFromFL

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1877 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 12 September 2004 - 10:17 PM

We should all do a 50 drum burst to celebrate!!! biggrin.gif cool.gif smile.gif
  • 0

#3 junglewalk

junglewalk

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:by Ft.Knox,Ky.
  • Interests:The 98k rifle, MP-40 & 44; the Thompson.......reloading, HO scale military miniatures.......

Posted 12 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

biggrin.gif Right after we buy a couple of newly made 50 rd drums....(with-out fear) laugh.gif ............jw
  • 0

#4 Bob B

Bob B

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 96 posts

Posted 12 September 2004 - 11:20 PM

I'll second THAT motion! Now, as soon as that bulk purchase is arranged ...

Seriously though, even though the ban is dead for now, the networks are still at it declaring that starting this week, America will become a bigger version of Fallujah. Recent talk show discussions give some indication of where we're headed - when one guest pointed out the ban was stupid and ineffective because there were many more dangerous guns than those named in the ban, the other's response was that clearly any new ban ought to be more encompassing. This is no time to rest on our laurels. Lionhart is correct in saying that the issue has to be buried in a deep deep hole. Celebrate, but don't relax. As soon as we do they'll run roughshod over us, and yes I mean Repubs as well as Dems. If things weren't so close right now, if the Repubs had a really comfortable majority and didn't need gun owners as much as they do, I don't think for a minute we wouldn't be sold down the river. I don't trust ANY of em.
  • 0

#5 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 12 September 2004 - 11:28 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, but tonight at 12:00, I'm heading out to my shop. I have Barrels to thread, Lugs to install, and Folding Stocks to attach! This feels SO good!!!! biggrin.gif
  • 0

#6 wolfer113

wolfer113

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 195 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Guns,Shooting,Knob Creek,Gun Matches,Hunting,Building Guns etc

Posted 12 September 2004 - 11:35 PM

YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS...........in 30 more mintues the ban will be over for me!!!!!!! i can't wait to see all the goodies come in and what kinda prices we'll have!!!! FINALLY we should be able to buy all the AR mags we want dirt cheap...good ole currant issue stuff!! i have a big list of goodies i need now...a REAL CAR stock for wifes 16" CAR...bunch of flashhiders..bunch of mags and DRUMS...etc etc etc..man the X-Mas list is gonna be long this year!!!!! YYYYYEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.....I'm gonna celebrate tomorrow!!!!!!!!!
  • 0

#7 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 12 September 2004 - 11:40 PM

I have about a two hour wait, but my tools are lined up, waiting to get busy! I made a pre-order last week for a good quanity of Factory HK USP 9MM 15Rd Magazines for $39.95!!!! Just s few months back you couldn't touch them at even $100.00! WOW, it's good to excerise our FREEDOMS isn't it?! NEVER again can we allow this to happen! Well, enough of that. I need to pick up some smokes..Going to be a long, BEAUTIFUL night!
  • 0

#8 colt21a

colt21a

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3465 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:arizona desert.
  • Interests:Whatever we can do in Life

Posted 13 September 2004 - 01:15 AM

the gold and platinium cards will be run up this week!!

{and i really don't care}

its for "FREEDOM"

Take Care.Ron
  • 0

#9 Deputy 89C6

Deputy 89C6

    Long Time Member

  • Regular Group
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 September 2004 - 01:55 AM

QUOTE (wolfer113 @ Sep 12 2004, 11:35 PM)
FINALLY we should be able to buy all the AR mags we want dirt cheap...good ole currant issue stuff!!

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but I really don't think we'll see any significant reduction in price of magazines right away. Most of the guys who sell magazines are not going to want to go back to pre 1994 prices...they've been making a killing off the ban. I've seen 20 round M14 magazines sell for better than $65.00, AR 15 mags for $20.00 - $35.00, even M1 carbine mags have sold as high as $25.00. The only way we can get the price to level off at a reasonable figure is to let the vendors who sell at the inflated prices sit on the magazines for a while. If they don't move them then maybe the prices will start falling.

It will be interesting to see how many of the manufacturers such as Colt and Springfield Armory will offer new hi cap magazines at a reasonable price, or if they will bow to political pressure and continue to not produce them for retail. I see that Kahr Arms, which had raised the law enforcement/export L drum price to $270.00 last week, has removed the L drum from their website completely.

We won a battle, but the war rages on.

My opinion.

Steve
  • 0

#10 Balder

Balder

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 291 posts
  • Location:Norway

Posted 13 September 2004 - 03:38 AM

Congrats guys, you all deserved this one!


Regards,

Balder
  • 0

#11 Bill in VA

Bill in VA

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southwest Virginia

Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:51 AM

Straight from the horse's mouth..........

http://www.atf.gov/
http://www.atf.gov/f...w-factsheet.htm
http://www.atf.gov/f...ms/saw-faqs.htm


L drums for everyone! Shoot up, me hearties!

  • 0

#12 Grey Crow

Grey Crow

    RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 1077 posts
  • Location:North Central Pennsylvania
  • Interests:Thompson Submachine guns, computers, reptiles.

Posted 13 September 2004 - 07:37 AM

I wouldn't get to excited about manufacturers producing huge volumes of hi-cap mags..

Remember the fight was lost to protect the manufacturers from nuisance law suits.

That is the main reason that Colt stopped manufacturing for the civilian market.

It's fantastic that the battle has been won at the front door, but the back door is still open.
  • 0

#13 hawksnest

hawksnest

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central Ohio
  • Interests:Class III weapons

Posted 13 September 2004 - 08:33 AM

Congrats to all who worked so hard. While the battle (not the war) has been won at the Federal level the anti's aren't giving up and new battles are being fought at the State and local level. We must stay informed on gun issues at all levels of our government.
  • 0

#14 96lt1ss

96lt1ss

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 120 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Home of the St Valentines Day Masacre

Posted 13 September 2004 - 08:44 AM

I have a feeling there plans are to pass new legislation which will be even more strict. My question is does anyone know of someone who deals in LE Only L drums that will sell them to any of us.

Kahr still manufactures the 50 rounders and I would like to get a few before they become banned again under any other legislation.
  • 0

#15 Chopper28

Chopper28

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 698 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Class III stuff and Harleys

Posted 13 September 2004 - 10:30 AM

This is truly a historic day for us. Celebrate while we can. If there is anything you have wanted in the past now is the time to get it. There is no telling how long our reprive will last. If we knew 15 years ago what we know now we would all probably have gotten Colt TSMG's. The gun control advocates will try again of that you can be sure. So enjoy today but keep up the good fight.
  • 0

#16 Bill in VA

Bill in VA

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southwest Virginia

Posted 13 September 2004 - 10:49 AM

WTF??? The "breaking news" bit at the top of the BATF web site has now disappeared. (It was there earlier, when I printed it all out.)

  • 0

#17 LIONHART

LIONHART

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 2785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Thompsons of course. All Manufactures and Models.

Posted 13 September 2004 - 11:31 AM

I had quite the busy, fun filled night! smile.gif (And a little bit sleepy at that!) Bill, take a look at the ATF Home Page. http://www.ATF.GOV
  • 0

#18 Bill in VA

Bill in VA

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southwest Virginia

Posted 13 September 2004 - 11:35 AM

Yup, I saw it earlier. The it disappeaered and the html links went dead, and now they're active again...



Vuja De! It just hit me! AWs: legal/not legal/legal...atf web site: up/down/up........any chaos theorists here to help me understand it??
  • 0

#19 PATHFINDER

PATHFINDER

    Regular Member

  • Regular Group
  • 300 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Automation Alley, Michigan

Posted 13 September 2004 - 04:21 PM

QUOTE (hawksnest @ Sep 13 2004, 08:33 AM)
new battles are being fought at the State and local level.  We must stay informed on gun issues at all levels of our government.

MICHIGAN, THIS MEANS YOU!!!!
Here are the Senate Bill numbers and a note from the person who started this whole thing. This is ans UP AND COMMING ISSUE for us here in Michigan. Get on it soon or register those AW and then lose them like they are in Chicago!! C.C.

Chris,

The correct bill numbers are SB 1381 & 1382; they should be available
on the legislative website within the next few days.

Sincerely,
GILDA Z. JACOBS (D)
State Senator 14th District
HERE IS HER EMAIL ADDRESS> SenGJacobs@senate.michigan.gov

HERE IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE HEAD OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITY THAT IS REVIEWING HER BILL
SEN Allan Cropsy> SenACropsey@senate.michigan.gov
Sounds like he is on our side(sounds like!)

OH, AND BY THE WAY, HERE ARE EMAIL ADDRESS FOR THE REST OF THE MICHIGAN SENATE

SenJAllen@senate.michigan.gov
SenJBarcia@senate.michigan.gov
SenRBasham@senate.michigan.gov
SenVBernero@senate.michigan.gov
SenPBirkholz@senate.michigan.gov
SenMBishop@senate.michigan.gov
SenLBrater@senate.michigan.gov
SenCBrown@senate.michigan.gov
SenNCassis@senate.michigan.gov
SenDCherry@senate.michigan.gov
SenIClark-Coleman@senate.michigan.gov
SenHansenClarke@senate.michigan.gov
SenREmerson@senate.michigan.gov
SenVGarcia@senate.michigan.gov
SenTGeorge@senate.michigan.gov
SenJGilbert@senate.michigan.gov
SenMGoschka@senate.michigan.gov
SenBHammerstrom@senate.michigan.gov
SenRJelinek@senate.michigan.gov
SenSJohnson@senate.michigan.gov
SenWKuipers@senate.michigan.gov
SenBLeland@senate.michigan.gov
SenMMcManus@senate.michigan.gov
SenDOlshove@senate.michigan.gov
SenBPatterson@senate.michigan.gov
SenMPrusi@senate.michigan.gov
SenASanborn@senate.michigan.gov
SenMSchauer@senate.michigan.gov
SenKSikkema@senate.michigan.gov
SenMScott@senate.michigan.gov
SenTStamas@senate.michigan.gov
SenMSwitalski@senate.michigan.gov
SenBThomas@senate.michigan.gov
SenLToy@senate.michigan.gov
SenGVanWoerkom@senate.michigan.gov
  • 0

#20 Sgt

Sgt

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 2047 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern TN
  • Interests:Militaria, Chess, Tools, Sherlock Holmes, Printmaking, UFOs, Ghosts, Electronics, Comic Books, Long walks in the rain, with my Savage 1928a1. (just kidding on the last one; it doesn't have to be raining) -- Ralph

Posted 13 September 2004 - 04:59 PM

Congrats all for the great fight. Thanks Devon, for carrying a big torch! Gosh! I wished I hadn't traded my Mac 90 with the stupid thumbhole stock. Well, guess there's more goodies out there.
  • 0