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Ao 9mm Thompson


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#1 markg

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 11:46 PM

Last year I purchased a AO M1928 in 9MM. Looking for any information out there regarding the history of this firearm. It's my feeling AO may have produced 14 9MM M1928's. Serial numbers run from 330A through 343A.
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#2 Bill in VA

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 06:39 AM

A factory 9mm gun? WH or Bridgeport? (I ask because nowadays a lot of folks are using "AO" for anything other than Colt or Kahr.) Cool beans! What does it use for magazines?
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#3 markg

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 03:24 PM

It's a Bridgeport. Came with one drum and three UD-M42 mags. Drum works perfectly but the UD-M42 mags have feed problems. However, I really haven't got around into looking into why the mags don't work well.
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#4 Chopper28

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 03:41 PM

That serial number range with the "A" suffix looks like West Hurley manufacture.
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#5 TD.

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:53 PM

I believe Chopper28 is correct. Your Thompson is probably what is commonly referred to as a West Hurley Thompson. While researching the West Hurley Thompson Model of 1928 serial number lists, I noted in 1976 (the second year of production of West Hurley Thompsons with the "A" suffix) that serial numbers 300A - 329A were produced. The serial numbers then jumped to 344A. The first serial number range listed for 1977 begins with serial number 330A and ends with serial number 343A. Perhaps these 14 Thompsons (or at least some of them) were manufactured in 9mm. I seem to recall that a 9mm West Hurley Thompson was offered for auction at JC Devine a year or so ago. Does anyone else recall this auction? It sounds like you have an interesting West Hurley Thompson. Can you post a picture or two?
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#6 markg

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:59 PM

Chopper28 is correct about it being a WH. The F4 lists it as manufactured by Auto Ordnance Corp Bridgeport CT. You are correct in the date of manufacture as 1977. I purchased the Thompson at the JC Devine auction you referred to.

Just pulled the Thompson from the gun safe. The receiver is stamped as follows:

US Model 1928 Thompson Submachine gun
NO 330A Cabiber .45M1

Auto-Ordnance Corporation
West Hurley, New York USA

Not sure why the paperwork would say Bridgeport. But I'm far from an expert on Thompsons.

The form 4 lists 9mm and 45 calibers. JC Devine believed this was an experimental Thompson perhapes to test the waters in the market place.

The West Hurley drum has been modified as well to handle 9mm.

I'll work on getting some pictures posted.

Thanks for the relpy.

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#7 28 SCARAB

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 06:33 AM

There was one 9mm made for a guy in TX but I did that 1928 I think in about 1980 also I think the sel.# was his name or Initials . There was never any other 9mm. made in West Hurley
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#8 markg

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 05:32 PM

Phil,

Thanks for the tips.

Mark
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 05:53 PM

The only 9mm TSMG produced during WWII were the Savage ones. And their numbers were infinitely small. The only known example has "S1" stamped as its designation. Of course Savage manufactured guns still had the Bridgeport, Connecticut address, even though they were made in Utica, New York.

The "AO" reference with the Bridgeport address could only be a WWII example. Yet the "A" suffix is a West Hurley dead give away. Could this be another example of a Numrich made up gun like the engraved "prototype" M1A1 that has appeared on this board?

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#10 TD.

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:35 PM

Arthur,
I too wondered about the AO Bridgeport markings on a receiver with an obvious West Hurley serial number. However, it appears the Bridgeport address is only on the Form 4 since the receiver shows the West Hurley address. As we discussed in an earlier NAC thread, it appears anything can go in the address of the manufacturer box on the Form 3 and/or Form 4. I bet you can change the manufacturer address between transfers and no one at BATF would bat an eye. A few pictures would pictures of this Thompson would tell the story.

28SCARAB appears to be a former NAC employee who states NAC only built one 9mm Model of 1928 Thompsons and this is not it. Interesting. Please tell us more 28SCARAB. I suggest markg do a Freedom of Information request to see how many persons owned this Thompson since it left NAC. If it did not leave the factory as a 9mm, I would guess the first transfer would list the Thompson only in caliber .45 ACP. Somewhere along the line the 9mm caliber will show up - maybe with the Bridgeport address.

In any event, PK. would be a good choice to figure out the feeding problems from the box magazines. His examination may also shed some light on the conversion to 9mm.


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#11 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:46 PM

markg,
When you were bidding on it did you assume it was a WWII manufactured Bridgeport TSMG prototype 9mm? How did Devine advertise the TSMG? From your most recent post, all the info on the receiver would have unmistakably denoted that your gun was a conversion project undertaken by someone after 1977.

TD,
After reading the additonal information provided, I understand it was a false alarm.

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#12 markg

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 06:25 PM

Gentlemen,

First, JC Devine did not mis-represent the gun. It was clearly communicated that it was producted by WH in 1977.

I need to get my hands on a digital camera. The one I have has a removable PCMCIA hard drive. The problem I have is my new notebood ony has a singel PCMCIA slot and the the drive is doubel wide and needs two slots in order to be inserted.

So, I'll have to go out and buy a new camera. I'll try to get pictures posted in the next few days. Thanks to everyone who have provide feedback so far....

Regards,

Mark
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#13 markg

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 10:42 AM

Pictures available to anyone who wants to see them...... Just sent me an email.

Mark
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#14 PATHFINDER

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 07:59 PM

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Sep 15 2004, 05:53 PM)
The only 9mm TSMG produced during WWII were the Savage ones. And their numbers were infinitely small. The only known example has "S1" stamped as its designation.

The Savage receiver marked with just "S#' that I have seen was an M1. These were suposedly original production test pieces used by US inspectors to validate the Savage design of the new simplified M1 receiver. These were shipped to Aberdeen Proving grounds for testing as just receiver and bolt combinations. 1928 barrels and frames were fitted and they were run throught thier paces. Some twenty of these were made marked S1 through S20 on the bottom, right in front of the mag well. These receivers have no other markings at all and are listed on form 4s with thier serial numbers as 'S4' for example with Savage listed as the Mfg. I know who used to own 'S7' as unfitted receiver and bolt combo (bolt had no markings) with US Ordnance tags still wired to it. Last time I saw it 'Auto Weapons' had it for sale about three years ago.
The plot thins!
Were the new M1s supposed to be in 9mm? Is this why the serial numbers were in the same serial as the one AF is talking about? Was there a plan to have them use MP-40 mags picked up from dead Aryan supermen? Will the Fed raise intrest rates soon? Who has beer? All this and more will be revealed in the next exciting episode of "I Really Need to Check My Blood SUGAR laugh.gif !
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